E&OE
14 April 2009
Interview with ABC 2
Subjects: Meeting in Bali; people smuggling; trans-national crime
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Now, just days after Thailand's East Asian Summit was called off due to unrest, the Foreign Affairs Minister Stephen Smith is set to head to Bali for another international conference. The 50 nation meeting is examining how to crack down on people smuggling, and also trans-national crime.
And Mr Smith joins us now from Perth, just as unrest continues in Thailand and Fiji.
Stephen Smith, good morning. Thank you for joining us.
STEPHEN SMITH: Pleasure Virginia.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: First of all, just turning our attention to Thailand if we can - the Prime Minister there - Abhisit Vejjajiva - says that the situation is now under control. Is that your understanding?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well I've just spoken to our Ambassador in Bangkok. It's of course in the early hours of the morning in Bangkok. The advice I have is that things are much as they were yesterday and last night. Unfortunately, and very regrettably overnight, we've had at least two deaths confirmed; possibly three. So our very strong advice remains as it was yesterday. Which is if there are Australians in Bangkok they should avoid unnecessary travel around the city they should effectively stay, as I put it anecdotally, in their hotels and their houses. But they should certainly avoid those points where the military have gathered and those points where demonstrations are and where there are large numbers of people. And we continue to urge the Thai political leadership to resolve this matter peacefully and in accordance with the Thai constitution.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: So, the Prime Minister's wrong? It's not under control. As you say, the situation is as it was say about 12 or 24 hours ago. I wonder what your view is then of what role the King is or isn't playing in this whole situation. He's regarded as a, as a figure of unity; of someone that all sides can actually respect. Why is he so absent in this matter?
STEPHEN SMITH: That's of course a matter for the King. But in the past we have seen the palacewe have seen the King, wait until the King regards it as an appropriate time to make public comment or to send messages out. And when we saw at the end of last year, in November and December last year, we saw similar political volatility and political difficulty in the end, towards the end, the King sent out various messages. But, the King, in the first instance, leaves it to the Thai political and democratic process and that's what needs to occur. Certainly, it's very important that Thailand continues to adhere to democracy. And whilst we understand the role of the military in terms of keeping order and provided that is done in accordance with the constitution, then there is no difficulty with that. But it's essential that the matter is now resolved in accordance with the Thai political and constitutional and democratic processes.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: But how likely is that now? I mean, as we can see, the calls for proper and full democracy in Thailand will not go away. But you can't have the democracy without law, and without the rule of law; and that's what seems to be missing isn't it?
STEPHEN SMITH: Thailand has had these difficulties in the past. As I say, in November and December of last year we saw similar difficulties. There were different causes and a different analysis. And they were resolved. It took too long to resolve, but eventually they were resolved. And we just urge the Thai political leadership to resolve these matters similarly. Yesterday I asked our Ambassador to relay that message to the Thai leadership, to the Thai authorities; and that's the strong urging of Australia. And given of course the cancellation of the East Asia Summit, I'm sure it's also the strong urgings of Thailand's ASEAN colleagues.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Now, just turning our attention to the situation in Fiji as well. There's a, there's a few issues to get through here this morning Stephen Smith. We were hearing just before from Ian Lloyd QC on the program - who of course has had a role over in Fiji as a judge on the Court of Appeal. He's saying that his fear is that those judges who have been sacked will turn up for work again today - this morning - at great personal risk. Do you have a fear they might do that; and do you think that would be a wise thing for them to do?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well certainly we are very worried. Our advice to Australians who are in Fiji is they need to exercise great caution, they need to exercise a very high level of caution. We're constantly monitoring the situation in Fiji. So far as the judges are concerned, that of course is just another illustration of how the Fiji constitution has been abrogated and overturned. We've seen effectively the judges overruled and their commissions terminated. We've seen the censorship and the intimidation of the media. Certainly, judges who turn up to work this morning will no doubt have to conduct themselves very cautiously. And there'll be a number of Australians who, in the past, have taken commissions with the Fiji judiciary. They'll have to think long and hard about whether it's worthwhile continuing in that, in that manner. Certainly, what appears to be the case in Fiji under Commodore Bainimarama, is that if a court makes a decision which he doesn't like, then it's overturned by whatever means.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Stephen Smith, I know that you've mentioned that you'll give serious consideration to voting in favour of removing Fiji from the Commonwealth again. But in essence, what does that really achieve; and what does that achieve for the people there?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well somehow we've got to continue to put pressure on the administration to…
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Is that...
STEPHEN SMITH: ...help return Fiji...
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: ...is that, is that the real and the greatest and most pressing pressure that the Australian Government can think of?
STEPHEN SMITH: There are a range of things that we are currently doing and a range of things that we're in consultation with friends and neighbours. But, it's quite clear that unless there's some dramatic change of events or turn, that Fiji will be suspended from the Pacific Island Forum and also from the Commonwealth. Both the Pacific Island Forum leaders who met in Port Moresby in January of this year and the Commonwealth Ministerial Action Group met in London in February/March, have effectively both put Fiji on a timetable towards democracy. Unless there's a dramatic turn of events, I think it's frankly inevitable that Fiji will be suspended from the Commonwealth. That puts pressure on Fiji. But we do need to do is to put pressure on the administration, but at the same time, not to do things which hurt the people of Fiji. Which is why, so far as Australia is concerned, we have for example had travel sanctions against members of...
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Yes.
STEPHEN SMITH: ...the regime, and limits to ministerial contact. But we try to do things which don't impact adversely on the people of Fiji themselves.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: And just finally - this conference that you're going to in Bali, looking at people smuggling, amongst other issues. I wonder then, do we need to view the recent increase in boat arrivals here in Australia? Is that a failure of our local intelligence, or a failure of the intelligence of our neighbours and our partners in dealing with this issue?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well I don't, don't think it's either. I think both Australia...
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: It has to be failure of some intelligence. We're supposed to be smart people. We're supposed to know this is, these boats are coming our way.
STEPHEN SMITH: Well there are couple of factors here. Firstly, we know there are increased so-called push factors which are driving or displacing people from countries further to our north. And Sri Lanka is an unfortunate example in that respect. Secondly, we also know that the people smugglers are becoming much more adept much more savvy, using, you know, better enhanced techniques and we need to combat that. The conference that I'm going to in Bali for the so-called Bali Process is co-chaired by Australia and Indonesia, it gathers together...
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Just quickly if you can Stephen Smith.
STEPHEN SMITH: Sure, it gathers together 30 or 40 countries in our region, plus some important international organisations. Because, the key thing in stopping people movement is to get regional coordination. We can't do this without our neighbours in the region like Indonesia...
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Okay.
STEPHEN SMITH: Malaysia, and also increasingly, Sri Lanka.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Stephen Smith, really good to have you on the program this morning. Thanks very much.
STEPHEN SMITH: Thanks Virginia. Thank you.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: That at least looks like one conference that won't be cancelled upon the people arriving there.
JOE O'BRIEN : And just repeating what the Minister said there - we've been reporting this morning that there have been two deaths in those protests in Thailand. He believed there may have been three.
[ENDS]
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