E&OE
19 February 2009
Interview - 7.30 Report
KERRY O’BRIEN, PRESENTER: President Obama's commitment
last night of 17,000 American troops to the conflict in
Afghanistan was a sober reminder to Australia of what a
quagmire that battleground with Taliban insurgents is
becoming.
Foreign Minister Stephen Smith has just returned from
Australia's first official visit to Pakistan in more than a
decade, where he saw firsthand how entrenched the Taliban in
the border regions between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Even allowing for new expressions of resolve from Pakistani
President Asif Ali Zardari to meet the Taliban threat to his
own country, British Foreign Minister David Milliband said
Coalition troops have reached a stalemate with the Taliban in
Afghanistan.
And President Obama's special envoy to the region, Richard
Holbrooke, says he's never seen a mess.
Australia has a lot of stake in Afghanistan' eight soldiers
have already died there and the military commitment is open
ended.
Stephen Smith is in Sydney for high level talks with his
Indonesian counterpart now, and I spoke with him just a few
moments ago.
Stephen Smith, after your talks with the Pakistan Government
this week, how genuinely committed do you think they are to
tackling the Taliban presence, insurgency, inside their own
borders?
STEPHEN SMITH, FOREIGN MINISTER: I think very committed. I
think President Zardari has come to the conclusion that this is
not just a threat to Afghanistan as a result of the
difficulties on the Pakistan Afghanistan border, but is an
existentialist threat to Pakistan itself.
He said as much over the weekend and in my conversation with
him he is proceeding, in my view, on the basis of this is a
threat which Pakistan, itself has to deal with otherwise it
faces the peril of going out of existence itself.
KERRY O'BRIEN: And do you think... are you confident that the
Pakistan military, which has been a problem in the past, is
squarely lined up with President Zardari?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, I met with not just my counterpart the
Foreign Minister and Prime Minister Ghalayni, but also the
chief of the armed forces, General Kayani.
And I have to say, I was impressed with his command of the
complexities and difficulties that Pakistan faces in the border
region, where the difficulty is not just for Pakistan, but also
for Afghanistan.
So I think in terms of their armed forces, they're certainly
led by a person who understands very well the terrorist and the
extremist threat that Pakistan is facing, and he, like his
president, in my view, certainly wants to confront and defeat
it.
KERRY O'BRIEN: American officials have expressed the view that
the coalition effort in Afghanistan is going backwards at the
moment.
And President Obama's Special Envoy to the region, Richard
Holbrooke, said recently "I have never seen anything like the
mess we inherited".
Is it fair it say that the problems in Afghanistan are more
daunting today than ever?
STEPHEN SMITH: They're certainly very daunting.
KERRY O'BRIEN: More daunting than ever?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, I think there has been a deterioration of
the peace and security arrangements in certain areas.
And I think what general David McKiernan, for example, has said
in the last couple of days is we are emerging into the Northern
Hemisphere spring and summer, which will bring more players
out, unfortunately.
I'm... I welcome a number of things; I welcome the fact that
President Obama is doing a comprehensive substantial review,
which includes...
KERRY O'BRIEN: Can you see rabbits that he can pull out of the
hat with...
STEPHEN SMITH: No, but I think it's important... it is
important to do that review. He's the advice from General
Petraeus and General McKiernan; he's got the advice he'll get
from ambassador Holbrooke, and it's all now in a sense being
oversighted by Mr Riddell, who'll do the comprehensive
review.
Important to the comprehensive review is that the terrorist
threat, which a threat to the international community,
including Australia, can be defeated in Afghanistan, or indeed
in Pakistan, by a military enforcement action alone.
It has to carry with it a civilian construction, reconstruction
capacity building, nation building aspect, and also at some
point in the cycle there has to be a political dialogue between
the political players in Afghanistan.
And I think the benefit of the review will see the nature of
the... and scale of the task, but also focus much more clearly
on what needs to be done and what the realistic objectives
are.
And to me the realistic objective is to ensure that we reduce
in Afghanistan and Pakistan the capacity of terrorist elements
to be international community threats.
KERRY O'BRIEN: Well, do you agree with British Foreign
Secretary David Milliband and his comments last week when he
said that coalition forces are stuck in a stalemate with the
Taliban?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, I think at this stage you'd say that David
Milliband wouldn't be alone in that assessment.
KERRY O'BRIEN: Is that your way of saying, "Yes, I agree with
you".
STEPHEN SMITH: It's my way of saying this... and whilst General
Petraeus and General McKiernan have expressed it in different
words, that's essentially what they are saying, which is why I
think we've seen the 17,000 additional troops supplied at
General Petraeus and McKiernan's request, and also the
fundamental overarching review.
KERRY O'BRIEN: Well, if other NATO countries reflect Mr
Milliband's pessimism or view about Afghanistan, it's hard to
see they'd be enthusiastic about meeting President Obama's
obvious wish to see more NATO troops committed to
Afghanistan.
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, everyone is expecting, and Secretary Gates
effectively said as much on way to Krakow where my colleague
Joel Fitzgibbon will meet with him, that they're looking at an
enhanced contribution, including and enhanced military
contribution, and they'll be looking to others to make that
enhanced contribution.
KERRY O'BRIEN: But you agree, if other NATO countries have the
same view of what's happening in Afghanistan as David
Milliband, then that's going to be a tough ask?
STEPHEN SMITH: What I think every NATO nation who is currently
a contributor or non-contributor will have to make a judgment
in light of new circumstances.
A new US Administration determined to make a substantially
increased commitment not just military, but nation building,
civilian capacity building, and wanting to see a political
dialogue affected by the relevant political players and parties
in Afghanistan.
KERRY O'BRIEN: And just in terms of the politics, you'd have to
say that President Karzai's chances of putting together an
effective election in August in the context of a heightened
Taliban activity through the spring and summer, as you say, is
not going to fill you with great hope.
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, I think it's true to say that there's an
ebbing of confidence in President Karzai in the international
community.
It's also very important that we see an election in
Afghanistan. It may well be that one of the requests which
comes to NATO and other international community members is a
special effort or a special edition for the purposes of
election protection or observation. That may well be a request
which comes.
But I think the key thing is we see a new US Administration
determined to make a difference, a difference in strategy, a
difference in contribution. And the NATO countries will need to
assess that in that light.
We've been saying for some time as the largest non NATO
contributor, that we are open minded about an additional or
further civilian capacity building contribution, but we're not
proposing to go behind our current contribution without seeing
an enhanced contribution from others.
KERRY O'BRIEN: But putting all those elements together you must
be worried, the Prime Minister must be worried, about such an
open-ended commitment?
Even if you don't end up supplying extra troops the commitment
that's there now is substantial and significant enough in
Australia's terms - eight dead already - that this is a
commitment this could last for years.
STEPHEN SMITH: There's no doubt this is difficult, dangerous,
complex, and it's going to be a long haul contribution. There's
no doubt about that.
But when we first came to office over a year ago we sat down
and we very carefully went through whether we believe our
ongoing contribution in Afghanistan was in our national
interest.
We came strongly to the conclusion that Afghanistan, the
Afghanistan Pakistan border area, is currently, regrettably,
the hotbed of international terrorism.
And the area where the threats, north to Europe and south to
South East Asia and Australia lies, that has to be confronted
by the international community.
We are very, very resolute in our view that being there is in
our national interest, just as it is in our regional interest,
as interest as a country interested in South Asia, just as it's
in the international community's interest to confront it.
KERRY O'BRIEN: Stephen Smith, we are out of time, thanks for
talking with us.
STEPHEN SMITH: Thanks Kerry, thanks very much.
[Ends]
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