E&OE
28 November 2008
Interview with Fran Kelly, Radio National Breakfast
KELLY: Well let's return to our coverage of the situation in Mumbai now. As we've reported this morning, security forces seem close to securing the Taj Hotel. Hostages have also been released from a nearby Jewish centre.
But the situation at the Oberoi Hotel is still the focus, with hostages and gunmen still inside. So far 125 people have been killed since the attacks began just over 24 hours ago.
Our Foreign Minister, Stephen Smith, has the latest briefing on Australian casualties, he joins us now from London. Minister, thanks very much for joining us.
SMITH: Good morning, Fran.
KELLY: Stephen Smith, one Australian, a Sydney businessman, Brett Gilbert Taylor, is confirmed dead, but you've suggested there are unconfirmed reports of a second Australian dead, do you have any more information on that?
SMITH: I can't confirm the second death, the first death we have confirmed, and we extend obviously our sympathy to the families. We've had very bad reports of a possible second death, and we're very gravely concerned, but we're not yet in a position to confirm that.
Of course, our other worry is that we're just not in a position to confirm the safety and security and welfare of a number of Australians in the Oberoi Hotel in particular, and there continue to be hostilities associated in and around that hotel, so we're gravely concerned about that. But we've got the same problem that other nations have, like the United Kingdom, where I am, where it's very difficult to get the detailed information that we need, whilst the hostilities are continuing.
KELLY: Yes, of course, it's a tough situation, we'll come to those other Australians in a moment, but just staying with what you call these bad reports of unconfirmed dead, is that a person inside a hotel?
SMITH: Well, it's not appropriate, I'm not in a position to go into any of the detail which causes us to be gravely concerned, suffice to say we've got information effectively from eye-witnesses, which puts another Australian life, we think, at very grave risk. We're not in a position to confirm it, we may not be in a position to confirm it, until hostilities cease completely in and around the Oberoi Hotel.
In your intro you said that things were much calmer at the Taj Mahal Hotel, that's right, and some Australians have come out of that hotel in dribs and drabs over the last few hours.
KELLY: And in terms of the Australians who you still have grave concerns about, how many Australians? Do we know how many Australians, for instance, are still in the Oberoi Hotel, or unaccounted for in there?
SMITH: With precision, no, and I've said publicly on a number of occasions that our estimates, if you like, we can't be certain, we can't be precise. One figure that I have used is there could be as many as 25 or 26, but again, I'm not using that as a definitive number, but frankly, an Australian that we can't account for, causes us deep concern, and clearly there's more than one, and the sooner that the situation in the Oberoi Hotel settles down, then the quicker we'll be able to make those judgements.
In addition to hostilities of course, there is a difficulty with the Oberoi Hotel, there is at least one fire there, which obviously, you know, has caused us grave difficulties all of its own.
KELLY: And what attempts are being made to contact the Australians that we think are in these hotels, or in the Oberoi now? Are Consulate staff, or High Commission staff, are they ringing them, how are they doing that?
SMITH: Well by coincidence, I wouldn't describe it as a happy coincidence, but by coincidence our High Commissioner was actually in Mumbai, so he has literally been on the ground, in the streets, together with some Consulate officers, I've spoken to him on a number of occasions.
We have made contact, through our officials, with some Australians in the hotel, but we've done that in some respects quite discreetly, because we didn't want to - we knew that some people were effectively bunkering down and hiding, so we didn't want to draw attention to them, so as discreetly as we can, we've made contact with a number of Australians, but we know that there are more Australians that we haven't been able to make contact with, and that's the cause of our greatest concern.
KELLY: And in terms of helping other Australians who have been caught up in the drama, there's one report today saying people rang the Embassy, and were just told to stay safe, which they didn't think was much help. What efforts are being done, are being made?
SMITH: Well, a range of efforts, I think in very difficult and extreme circumstances, our High Commissioner and his officers have done a remarkable job. We - on at least one full sweep, and on some occasions twice, we've searched the hospitals in Mumbai to make sure there are no Australians that have been brought there, we've done our best to make contact with people, as Australians have come out of hotels, we've done our best to link up with them. When people have asked for advice, our advice has been, if you're not in Mumbai, don't travel to Mumbai, if you are in Mumbai, do your best to keep your head down...
KELLY: Okay.
SMITH: ...you know, in very difficult circumstances, where we've got extremists and terrorists, using sub-machine guns and explosives, which the Indian military and police can't bring under control, frankly I think it is difficult to expect our officers to solve every problem instantaneously. Our people are doing the very best they can, in extreme circumstances.
KELLY: Minister, there are reports that some of the terrorists involved were from Pakistan. Does that concur with the briefings that you've got, and does that concern you, given the relationship between the two countries?
SMITH: Well firstly, I don't think that conclusion should be made. I have seen the remarks of Indian Prime Minister Singh, indicating the possibility that there may be external forces, I think it's too early to make that judgement.
There has been a claim by a group describing itself as the Deccan Mujahadeen, little is known of that source. What we do know in my view is it'll take us some time to make that careful judgement...
KELLY: Okay.
SMITH: ...I think one of the disturbing features of this is that we have seen terrorist activity in India in the course of this year, this is the first time when it looks as though western or foreigners may have been targeted in part, or in whole, and I think that is a disturbing development.
KELLY: And minister, obviously it's not the only loss of Australian life overseas, another soldier has been killed, an SAS soldier killed in Afghanistan, how concerned is our government about the increasing danger there, and do you think it's likely to raise barriers if Barack Obama asks us to send more troops?
SMITH: Well, we know that Afghanistan is difficult and dangerous, we've made that point repeatedly. We've also made it clear that we're the largest non-NATO contributor, so we're not proposing to increase the complement of troops that we have there.
Of course we will listen to whatever the new administration says, we know from election commentary that the President Elect is intent on increasing the American complement to Afghanistan, it also has in mind increasing and urging the international community to increase not just the military contribution, but also the civilian capacity building, or the development assistance capacity, and we strongly support that.
And also of course the third leg of the solution to Afghanistan, it's not just a military solution, it's not just building the capacity of the Afghanistan people and government, there also has to be a political dialogue between the Afghan Government, and other sections of the Afghan political community, those three things are required, and the pre-election commentary of Senator Obama, makes it clear that he's on that track as well.
KELLY: Minister, thank you very much for joining us on Breakfast.
SMITH: Thanks very much, Fran.
KELLY: Foreign Minister, Stephen Smith, joining us from London.
[Ends]
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