E&OE
Australian Minister for Foreign Affairs, Mr Stephen Smith
- 9 November 2008
- Interview, ABC TV 'Insiders'
- Bali bombers, New Zealand election, US-Australian relations, Afghanistan
BARRIE CASSIDY: So a lot happening this morning in Bali, in New Zealand and in the United States. And to get his reaction to these unfolding events, we're joined now from Perth by the Foreign Minister Stephen Minister.
Good morning and welcome.
STEPHEN SMITH: Good morning Barrie.
BARRIE CASSIDY: Well what are your thoughts this morning on the executions? Australians have been expecting this. The Government has been expecting it, of course, and yet like most of your colleagues, you're opposed to the death penalty.
STEPHEN SMITH: Well it's not a day that fills us with any joy, or with any celebration Barrie. My first thoughts are for the families of the victims of both the Bali bombings. It's just, in my view, a terrible reminder of a terrible, horrible event that occurred to family members.
Our secondary concern, of course, is young Australians, or Australians generally travelling to Indonesia and Bali. I made some remarks about that yesterday in terms of the travel advice which we're publishing for Australians contemplating travelling to Indonesia and Bali.
But it's a terrible day for the families. For some, it will bring some form of closure. But certainly we won't have the constant daily reminders that we've been having for the last 10 days or so.
BARRIE CASSIDY: And those daily reminders included a sort of indifference, an indifference from these three people to the deaths that they caused. And that's why, I suppose, for a lot of Australians, it's hard to have any sympathy.
STEPHEN SMITH: Well I had nothing but contempt for what the Bali bombers did and what they had to say when they were alive. And my view hasn't changed now.
But from Australia's perspective, I think it's really three levels. Firstly, our hearts go out to the families. Secondly, I do, again, draw to Australians our travel advice about the need to consider, or reconsider travel to Indonesia or Bali. We continue to have credible information that terrorists may be planning attacks in Indonesia. We continue to have credible information that Bali is an attractive place for terrorist attack, or for terrorists to contemplate attacks. And we worry, very much, about the previous sites of attacks in Bali, where young Australians can congregate, beaches, bars and shopping malls.
So far as the general question of capital punishment is concerned, Australia, of course, for a long period of time, has generally opposed capital punishment. That's essentially a bipartisan view at State and Federal level. And in international forums, Australia makes that point. So we urge countries who continue to apply capital punishment, not to do so. In the near future, at the UN General Assembly we'll be co-sponsoring a resolution calling effectively on a moratorium on capital punishment. And that's been Australia's position for some considerable time.
BARRIE CASSIDY: Well despite your warning on travel, schoolies week is about to start. Now a lot of Australian students go off to Bali. They're probably committed to that trip. What would your advice be to them?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well my advice remains, as it has been for some time, which is people should carefully read our travel advice before contemplating their travel.
Our advice in Indonesia has been the same for some period of time, effectively since November of 2002, in the aftermath of the first bombing, which is reconsider your need to travel.
And I made the point yesterday and I'll make it again today, there is the prospect that very many young Australians, either in mid-November or through to early December, will contemplate travel to Indonesia, or particularly Bali. If they do determine to go, we urge them to be very careful and exercise extreme caution and particularly to avoid those places where previous attacks have occurred - beaches, bars and the like. We are worried about the prospect of the supporters of the Bali bombers engaging in either demonstrations or reprisals.
Insofar as those people who've pre-committed, can I urge the travel industry to apply maximum flexibility. Whilst it is the case that our travel warning has been at the second highest level for some time, so far as Indonesia and Bali is concerned, the timing of the executions was not known until very recently. A number of people, I suspect, have pre-committed and so I very much urge the travel industry to apply maximum flexibility to those people, to those young Australians and their parents who want to change plans, to give them the flexibility to do so.
BARRIE CASSIDY: Now the Muslim cleric Abu Bakar Bashir said yesterday that the fighting spirit of the three men that should be followed and that they died as martyrs. Does he still have influence in Indonesia?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well he still has the capacity in Indonesia to let his views be known. We treat his views with nothing but contempt. And essentially we leave it at that.
We are very pleased with the cooperation, for example, that we have in an ongoing way with the Indonesian authorities, about our joint efforts on counter-terrorism. But also our joint efforts, not just to apply ourselves to counter-terrorism in enforcement, or a police, or a military way. But also to argue the case that we don't want extremism anywhere in the world. And whether that's religious extremism, religious intolerance, we want respect and regard for people and their faiths; which is why one of the very good things that Australia does with Indonesia regionally, and also with other countries in South East Asia like the Philippines, is there's a very strong commitment to interfaith dialogue.
So we continue to work with the Indonesians, both on the prevention and the disruption front. But also generally arguing the case that people's values and virtues and religious views should be respected. There's just no room in the modern world for intolerance and extremism.
BARRIE CASSIDY: Okay, a new government in New Zealand. A new National Government, after nine years of Labour, under Helen Clark. Your thoughts on that?
STEPHEN SMITH: We congratulate John Key and the Nationals on their election. Prime Minister Rudd spoke to Mr Key last night to offer congratulations on behalf of the Australian Government and the Australian people.
We value, very much, our relationship with New Zealand. It's a very, very important relationship. And we expect that the very close cooperation, which has always occurred between Australia and New Zealand, both nation state to nation state and government to government, will continue.
We worked very closely with Helen Clark's Government for the last year or so, just as her government worked very closely with the Howard Government, our predecessor. So we expect that very close cooperation and working together will continue.
BARRIE CASSIDY: And Helen Clark, what do you think she will be remembered for?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well she was Prime Minister for nine years and in the end time caught up with her. I think she's held in very high regard and very high respect, not just in New Zealand, across the board, but also in Australia.
I think one of the very good things she did as the Prime Minister was to effectively rebuild New Zealand's relationship with the United States. Australia and New Zealand worked closely together in the Pacific on development assistance in that area. But also the United States, we encouraged to operate in the Pacific. And I think one of the legacies that she hands over to the Key Government is a much better relationship with the United States, than has occurred in the past.
I think if you thought of one word for Helen Clark, it would be the great Australian word 'gutsy'. You know, she's been a fighter in good times and bad times and I think it's that which has really earned her the respect and regard and affection of her political colleagues and opponents, both in Australia and in New Zealand. But also, I think, the affection of both the New Zealand and the Australian people.
BARRIE CASSIDY: Okay. Well you mentioned the United States and let's talk about them now, and the United States, under Barack Obama. What will be the fundamental difference in foreign policy approach?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well time will tell. I suspect Barrie that they'll be a greater emphasis on dialogue and multi-lateralism. A change of any government, a new government here, a new administration in the United States, a new administration anywhere, does bring the chance for a fresh approach to ongoing difficult problems.
Because the election of Senator Obama is so historically significant, the first African American, in a country where race has been such a central part of its history, I think maximises that prospect for a fresh approach, or the perception of a fresh approach.
It does, I think, without reflecting in any way on the current Administration, it does open up the opportunity for brand America, if you like, to go to the world in an entirely modern and changed way. And I think that's a good thing for the United States. It's also a good thing for Australia.
The active engagement of the United States in the Asia-Pacific, but in the world generally, is very important. And it's also very important that the United States be held in good regard and good respect. And I think it's the case that the international community reception to Senator Obama's election reflects the fact that there is now a lot of affection and a lot of potential for good work to be done.
BARRIE CASSIDY: But how will your government and Kevin Rudd play this? In retrospect was John Howard too close to George Bush, in the sense that he seemed to follow George Bush without question on some key foreign policy initiatives, even though the majority of Americans were opposed to some of those initiatives. Is there something that the Rudd Government can learn from that?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well what we've always known Barrie, as a Labor Party, and what we apply in Government, is that when it comes to our foreign policy decisions, we put Australia's national interests first.
Now it's unambiguously the case that it's in Australia's national interest to continue with our Alliance with the United States. And Prime Minister Rudd and President-elect Obama have spoken by telephone. One of the first 10 or dozen foreign leaders to have a phone conversation with him. And both their starting points was to reaffirm the commitment to the Alliance.
See, the Alliance is an indispensable, enduring feature of our defence and security and strategic arrangements. It's served both Australia and the United States well. And it transcends governments here and administrations there. So, in the past, whether it's been Labor or Liberal here, Democrat or Republican there, the Alliance has served both countries well.
But we will make our decisions based on our national interest. But I made a general point, it is unambiguously in Australia's national interest for the Alliance with the United States to continue. It's also unambiguously in our national interests for the United States to be active and engaged in the Asia-Pacific, as in this century economic and political and strategic influence shifts to our part of the world with the rise of China and the rise of India and the rise of the ASEAN countries combined.
BARRIE CASSIDY: And that independence will be demonstrated, it seems, based on what you've been saying up until now, on the question of Afghanistan. You'll not be committing more troops?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well we welcome, very much President-elect Obama's comments, that he wants to see an enhanced commitment by the United States in Afghanistan. Not just in a military, or combat, or peace and security sense, but also in a civilian capacity, or national institution building sense. It's very important that in the end the Afghanistan Government, the Afghanistan people have got the capacity to manage their own affairs. So we need a big civilian effort to build their institutions, and that's certainly Australia's approach.
The third thing we need is the Karzai Government, or the Afghanistan political process has to engage in a political dialogue to see whether there can be a political settlement, so far as Afghanistan is concerned.
When it comes to our contribution, we've got nearly 1100 troops in Afghanistan. We also make a significant civilian contribution, or civilian building, or nation building contribution as I've referred to. But we've made it clear, we're the largest non-NATO contributor and we've got no plans to increase that amount. And certainly we're not going to be in the business of increasing our amount or our contribution, if that simply provides an excuse for other countries not to make their own contribution.
Joel Fitzgibbon, our Defence Minister, from day one has been making the point that we really see the need for an enhanced NATO contribution and commitment. The problem of Afghanistan is a problem for the international community. It is the hot bed of international mobile terrorism, which can move very quickly to north, to Europe and south, to South East Asia. And there's an international community responsibility to make a contribution. And we certainly welcome the fact that President-elect Obama wants to see that enhanced contribution and commitment.
BARRIE CASSIDY: Okay Minister. Just finally, the leaked telephone conversation between the United States President and the Australian Prime Minister. As Foreign Minister, you would instantly understand the implications of that. You must have been furious that such a thing could happen?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well I didn't accept the central tenant of the article, which was that President Bush didn't know what the G20 was, given that the entire con…
BARRIE CASSIDY: No, but there was a lot of other detail there…
STEPHEN SMITH: …conversation…
BARRIE CASSIDY: …that was spot-on as it turned out.
STEPHEN SMITH: Well there was no secret that Australia was pushing very strongly for the G20 to be the international institution to deal with these matters and we're very pleased that it has been chosen.
BARRIE CASSIDY: And you're not suggesting that this wasn't - this wasn't a sanctioned briefing. It seemed that the journalist got a lot of information, that wasn't available generally.
STEPHEN SMITH: Well what I'm saying Barrie, is that the central point of the article, which was President Bush didn't know about the G20, was said to be not the case by the White House. Was said to be not the case by the Prime Minister's office and the Prime Minister. And we've moved on since then. As the US Ambassador has said, the characterisation of the phone call wasn't agreed with by the White House, wasn't agreed with by the Prime Minister's Office, or the Prime Minister.
And those people who are suggesting that somehow such a report could have some lasting implications, I think have been proven wrong, with the very speedy way in which Prime Minister Rudd has spoken to President-elect Obama - and so far as one of 10 or 12 leaders to do so to-date. And so far as our ongoing relationship with the Bush administration is concerned, we've worked very positively and very closely with the Bush administration, including in implementing the very thing about which we strongly agree, which was the withdrawal of our troops from Iraq…
BARRIE CASSIDY: Okay…
STEPHEN SMITH: …which we did, to co-operation with them very closely. So we'll work…
BARRIE CASSIDY: Minister…
STEPHEN SMITH: …very closely with the Bush administration until the 20 January.
BARRIE CASSIDY: Sure. But to this day, do you know who was responsible and do you care?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well I don't know who was responsible and in terms of any lasting implications, it has none for the substantive points that I've made.
We should focus here on the substance Barrie. The G20 being chosen by President Bush, President Barroso, President Sarkozy, as the international institution to address the financial crisis, is firstly a correct decision in terms of public and foreign and international financial policy. But it's very advantageous from Australia's point of view, and we made no secret about the fact that we were pushing for that to occur. I spoke to a number of my counterparts, as the Prime Minister quite rightly spoke to a number of his.
BARRIE CASSIDY: Okay Minister, we're out of time. But thanks for your time this morning.
STEPHEN SMITH: Thanks very much Barrie. Thank you.
[Ends]
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