E&OE
22 September 2008
Interview with Fran Kelly, Radio National Breakfast
KELLY: The Prime Minister is planning to attend the UN General Assembly this week where Australia is lobbying for a seat on the Security Council. The PM will also have meetings, as Paul just mentioned, with executives from the US Federal Reserve and the World Bank, talking about the global financial crisis. The Federal Opposition has dubbed the PM the prime tourist rather than the Prime Minister. It's critical of the number of days that Kevin Rudd has spent globe trotting in his first year. In fact the Opposition claims the PM has been offshore more than the Foreign Minister. Well, our next guest should know, Foreign Minister Stephen Smith is already in New York and he joins you now. Stephen Smith, welcome to the program.
SMITH: Good morning, Fran, thank you.
KELLY: Well, the Opposition says you've been overseas less than the Prime Minister this year, is that right?
SMITH: That's not right, the facts just show absolutely to the contrary. I think the Prime Minister's been overseas for about 40 days and I've been overseas for about 67, so it's just not true. But in any event, Fran, the Prime Minister's travels overseas have been in Australia's national interests. Wherever the Prime Minister has gone, this is his second trip for example, to the United States, his first trip here was to help ensure that the transition to a new Australian Government didn't disturb the alliance with the United States. His trip to Europe opened up the way for a new partnership framework with the European Union and then to our major trading partners: China, Japan, but also in the Pacific and in south-east Asia. So his travels have been pursuing our national interest consistent with the three pillars of our foreign policy which is engagement with the United Nations, our alliance with the United States and engagement in the Asia Pacific.
KELLY: Okay. Well, let's talk about this trip. And I guess category one comes into play here, engagement with the UN. You're lobbying for a seat for Australia on the Security Council, why is that important?
SMITH: Well, being on the Security Council we think it's important, we haven't been there for over 20 years. But that's not the primary reason for my presence here and the Prime Minister's presence here. This is the opening of the General Assembly. It's the pre-eminent United Nations meeting week of any year, it's traditionally called leaders' week where Foreign Ministers, but more importantly Prime Ministers and Presidents, heads of government, heads of state, descend upon New York and show their support for the United Nations, engage in key debates whether that's climate change, or food security or achieving millennium development goals, but also engage in bilateral conversations and regional conversations with colleagues, Foreign Ministers, or Prime Ministers or Presidents.
KELLY: So our Prime Minister is there just as a show of support really, at the General Assembly?
SMITH: Well, it's not just a show of support, I mean, we made the point, when we were in Opposition, that the previous government did not do anywhere near enough to support our multilateral or our international institutions. Whether on the one hand it's the United Nations which is the pre-eminent institution for peace and security, or whether it's the IMF or the World Bank for financial security. Our predecessors did not engage enough multilaterally, on the contrary, particularly with the United Nations, they effectively stood outside the building and threw rocks. We think it's very important given, if you like, the cross border and the transnational challenges that the modern world faces whether it's pandemics or climate change or international terrorism, but you've got to sit down and speak, not just nation to nation in the bilateral sense but also regionally and also multilaterally. In the end it's our international institutions. We've set the international norms. He's here to make that point but he's also there to have those important financial security and financial regulation discussions. Two of the issues that he'll be dealing with very keenly this week, climate change and financial security, have got, you know, very grave implications if they're not handled correctly...
KELLY: Sure, there's no doubt about that but Malcolm Turnbull makes the point over the weekend you can have these talks on the phone. You can get Hank Paulson on the phone.
SMITH: Well, Malcolm Turnbull was the person who said that the Prime Minister had been away, more than I had. Malcolm Turnbull firstly needs to get his facts right and secondly needs to understand the importance of doing things which pursue and promote our national interest. And clearly the Prime Minister's pursuit of those issues, you know, face to face with key international partners and leaders, pursues and advances our national interest. Just as in my case, I'll be sitting down with a range of people and having face to face conversations about things that are of importance to Australia, whether that's my counterpart from Pakistan or my counterpart from Afghanistan.
KELLY: I'll come to Pakistan in a moment but just in terms of the UN processes, are you lobbying, is Australia committed to lobbying for a seat on the Security Council?
SMITH: Absolutely. And in the course of the conversations that I'll be having, I'll be raising that issue with my counterparts.
KELLY: And why is that important? Can you tell people listening why that's important that we have that seat?
SMITH: Well, the Security Council is the key part of the United Nations dealing with peace and security but more importantly with peacekeeping and with promoting peacekeeping and promoting peace. Australia has a very proud track record of being involved in United Nations peacekeeping efforts in international efforts to restore or maintain peace. This year, for example, we celebrated the 60th anniversary of our first contribution to a UN peacekeeping force. We'd been on the Security Council before, we were on the Security Council back in the 1940s when the United Nations came into existence. We haven't been on for...
KELLY: Since 1986, I think.
SMITH: Since 1986 and by the time the election comes around in 2012, we're standing for, for the 2013, 2014 term, it's over a quarter of a century, that is too long for a country like Australia who is a well-developed prosperous country with values and virtues that we can take to the world. We are in the top 15 economies and we're in the top dozen when it comes to defence and peacekeeping contributions.
KELLY: At what cost though, I mean, the Howard Government abandoned the idea in 2004 because estimates were that it was going to cost between $30 and $40 million to win this, to have any hope of winning a seat and what do you say to people who argue that's a waste of money?
SMITH: Well, I've seen those estimates bandied around but I've never seen anything produced to back that up.
KELLY: I understand they were departmental estimates.
SMITH: I haven't seen those, that's the first point. Secondly, the reason that the previous government didn't make a bid or mount a bid for Security Council membership is because in their heart of hearts they were not committed to the United Nations. We saw over a dozen years the previous government being critical, absolutely of the United Nations and effectively refusing to take an effective part.
KELLY: Let me put it this way, at what dollar cost is it worth it? If it is $40 million, is that justifiable in your view?
SMITH: Well we don't have a figure of that order.
KELLY: What figure do we have?
SMITH: Well, we don't have a figure because for the present, what we are doing, is from within our existing resources. It actually helps a lot, Fran, if you just turn up indicating an interest in the institution, that's the first point.
KELLY: Yeah, but we need to be clear on this. I mean, is Australia committed to this because it will cost money to pursue it, there's no doubt about that.
SMITH: Of course, we're committed to it.
KELLY: Without knowing the cost?
SMITH: And as I was about to say, currently we're doing things from within existing resources. We will, over the course of the coming years, make budgetary allocations to reflect the additional things that we will do to mount that campaign. We've got four and a half to five years to go. The campaign to date has been very successful in terms of creating an impression that we're interested because we've done a number of things which has attracted the attention of the international community. The apology was very warmly received as was the Government's first act, signing up for the Kyoto Protocol. What we need to do over a four year period is to transfer that very good sentiment into support at an actual ballot.
KELLY: It's ten to eight on Breakfast. Our guest this morning is Foreign Minister Stephen Smith who's joined us from New York.
Minister, just to Pakistan now, have you had discussions with other Foreign Ministers there about the suicide bombing in Pakistan? What's the view of what this means for the new government and its commitment to fighting terrorism?
SMITH: Well, I haven't had that opportunity yet. I arrived a few hours ago, but in the course of this week firstly I'll have a formal bilateral with Foreign Minister Qureshi from Pakistan, but also later in the week a number of Foreign Ministers will get together under the label of Friends of Pakistan, and that will include the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia and a range of others.
Firstly, we extend our condolences to the victims, including to the Czech Republic who lost a diplomat. It's a terrible, brutal, cowardly bombing, but it does reflect the difficulties that Pakistan is currently going through.
And I've made the point over the preceding weeks and months that firstly, so far as the border area between Afghanistan and Pakistan is concerned, that has very serious deleterious consequences for our 1100 troops in Afghanistan. But we really need to ensure that the Pakistani Government and people appreciate that the threat that is there is as much a threat to their own existence as it is a threat to Afghanistan.
I welcome very much the comments that we've seen from new President Zardari, not just in response to this terrible bombing, but since he became the new President.
And it's quite clear that Pakistan needs the assistance of the international community to try and get through this difficult time, which is why, in the past - and I again repeat it today - Australia is ready, willing and able to offer Pakistan whatever assistance it needs in terms of technical assistance and advice in meeting the terrorist threat that it faces. And I'll be having that conversation with Foreign Minister Qureshi in the course of this week.
KELLY: And Minister, can I get a brief response to you to the changing of the guard in South Africa, Thabo Mbeki. President Mbeki has tendered his resignation, Jacob Zuma is expected to become president.
What's your view of these changes?
SMITH: Well, it's happened very quickly, so in that sense it's a surprise. President Mbeki has indicated he will resign once the ANC has effectively chosen a replacement.
That may or may not in the short term be his nominated predecessor for a full term, Mr Zuma; there may be a temporary or a caretaker president. There's also a suggestion that former President Mbeki may continue in his role as negotiator or mediator in Zimbabwe.
But South African politics has always paid very careful attention to the role of the ANC and the ANC choosing its leaders. So from a South Africa or an ANC point of view, this is very much a changing of the guard; it's just occurred in circumstances about 12 months earlier than we would otherwise have expected it.
KELLY: And just finally, Stephen Smith, there in New York, there for a UN meeting, the news today is that the former Treasurer Peter Costello has accepted a position in the World Bank, in the new anticorruption body. I presume you know all about this. Mr Costello will apparently be able to do this job while he's also a Member of Parliament.
What's your view on this?
SMITH: Well, we wish him well. The World Bank is one of the important international financial institutions together with the IMF.
KELLY: Did you have any hand in recommending Peter Costello for this job?
SMITH: In terms of portfolio responsibilities that fairly and squarely my colleague, Wayne Swan, the Treasurer. So I'm not aware - I certainly didn't have any involvement. I'm not aware whether Mr Swan was - whether his views were asked in advance; but certainly, any Australian making a contribution in an important governance area like that, we welcome it.
Insofar as the former Treasurer is concerned, you know, good luck to him; it's another Australian making an international contribution in a good cause.
KELLY: Stephen Smith, thank you very much for joining us.
SMITH: Thanks Fran.
KELLY: Foreign Minister Stephen Smith joining us from New York, where he will attend the UN General Assembly, as will the Prime Minister, who leaves for New York later today.
[Ends]
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