E&OE
7 August 2008
Interview - Newshour with Jim Middleton, Australia Network
Subjects: Pakistan, Tibet, China Human Rights, Olympics, Bali Bombers
JIM MIDDLETON: Minister, thanks very much for your time.
STEPHEN SMITH: Pleasure Jim.
JIM MIDDLETON: First to the moves in Pakistan to impeach President Musharraf, what's your reaction?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, that's a matter for the Pakistan political process to determine, a matter for their parliamentary and political processes; not something that we would buy into or comment upon. It's really a matter they've got to determine for themselves.
JIM MIDDLETON: But this hardly makes for a stable Pakistan, and I would say that stability in Pakistan is one of the necessary conditions for success in the struggle in neighbouring Afghanistan against the Taliban and Al Qaeda?
STEPHEN SMITH: I certainly agree with the stability point. And so however the Pakistan political process, the Pakistan government, the Pakistan parliament resolves it, we'd want it to be resolved quickly. In the context of stability I think that point is right. And I've made the point previously we view very seriously the circumstances in Pakistan as they impact adversely on Afghanistan with our nearly 1100 troops in Uruzgan province.
JIM MIDDLETON: On the other hand I guess it's also fair to say that in the end the high hopes that - or Washington in particular, had for President Musharraf and Pakistan's role in the war against the Taliban and Al Qaeda haven't really been realised. He's been a bit of a disappointment really, hasn't he?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, I'm not going to reflect upon his record or his tenure. I think the point really is this: what's occurring in the Afghanistan-Pakistan border area is not an issue that we can leave as a bilateral issue to be resolved simply between Afghanistan and Pakistan. It has serious regional implications and serious international community implications, which is why we've been saying as a country, Australia, we need to engage Pakistan in a dialogue. I've done that with their foreign minister and with their officials in Singapore recently...
JIM MIDDLETON: On that front, on that score, it was in Singapore that you raised the issue of sending Australian military advisers to Pakistan. Have you had any formal response from Pakistan yet about - to that idea? I know there was certain coolness in Islamabad initially.
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, it wasn't that specific. I simply said to officials in Singapore that we saw this as an issue of concern to Australia - regional implications - and we wanted to do two things. I think Australia generally has to raise the level of its engagement with Pakistan, just as nation-to-nation.
But also when it comes to a very difficult problem, and we accept it's a difficult issue, the FATA areas, we accept that, understand that. If there is anything that we can do, then we were very happy to have that conversation. I wasn't as specific as military advisers; certainly ruled out and made clear we're not talking about a combat involvement. But this is a difficult problem and if there's anything that we can do by way of assistance we're happy to have that conversation and we'll pursue that.
JIM MIDDLETON: And any official reaction yet?
STEPHEN SMITH: Not at this stage but I wouldn't expect it. I saw the foreign minister in Paris for the Afghan Donors Conference. We had a good conversation. He wasn't in Singapore for the ASEAN related meetings; he was in Washington with his prime minister. But I've made it clear, and we've agreed, that it would be a good thing for me to go to Pakistan early in the new year. That's my ambition. I'd like to go there. And I think just from a general proposition, Australia can do much more with its relationship with Pakistan but we do need on this issue to have regional involvement and international community interest in what's occurring there. It's not something we can leave just to Afghanistan and Pakistan.
JIM MIDDLETON: It's been a big day for news in the region. Given what Australia has said about the need for genuine dialogue between the Chinese authorities and representatives of the Dalai Lama, I guess you'd have to applaud today's appeal from 40 Olympic athletes for what they termed a peaceful resolution to the Tibet question?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, that's the, if you like, the Australian Government position. We've made it clear both to the Dalai Lama when I saw him in Perth a few weeks ago, to foreign minister Yang when I saw him not just in Canberra in January for our first strategic dialogue but again I saw him in Singapore. We urge the Dalai Lama and his representatives and the Chinese authorities to have a constructive and positive dialogue and to resolve the difficulties in that context. And our strong stand on human rights in Tibet, the need for human rights in Tibet to be respected is on the record, and no better illustration of that than the Prime Minister saying it in Mandarin at Beijing University on his most recent visit.
JIM MIDDLETON: Is there anything further that the Australian Government can do to impress upon the Chinese authorities Australia's concerns about human rights in China?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, we do it on a regular basis. The Prime Minister has made that clear that in the course of his conversations with the Chinese premier and the president in the context of the Olympic Games, that he'll also be raising it. We do it in the formal human rights dialogue, I've done it on the occasions that I've met my counterpart.
I think there's also an important point to make. Unlike some commentators or even some nation-states, Australia took a very strong view that what was occurring in Tibet should not get in the way of the Olympic Games, which was why we always said there shouldn't be a boycott of the Opening Ceremony, that China's engagement in the international community in the context of the Olympic Games was a very, very good thing.
So both making the point on a regular and ongoing basis, but also encouraging openness, encouraging transparency, encouraging China to completely take its part in the international community is an unambiguously good thing. And we see the Olympics as being quite helpful in that context. From the Australian perspective the Olympics of course was a tremendous success for Sydney and Australia, and we hope the same is true of Beijing and China.
JIM MIDDLETON: On the question of human rights, do you believe that Australian athletes at the Games should make their views public on China's human rights record?
STEPHEN SMITH: Australian athletes have to conduct themselves in accordance with the conditions that they've agreed with the Australian Olympic...
JIM MIDDLETON: So you're not worried that they - the International Olympic Committee and the Australian Olympic Committee are basically barring them from doing it within venues?
STEPHEN SMITH: No, I - they've got... the Australian Olympic Committee, the International Olympic Committee, they've got to make their decisions in a manner in which they think is best for the Olympics and the spirit of the Olympics.
It's not of concern to me that athletes go to Beijing and don't make what you and I would regard as political or policy or foreign policy...
JIM MIDDLETON: [Interrupts] I'm not saying it should be mandatory, but should they have the kinds of absolute freedom that they would have in countries like Australia, the United States, Britain, for example?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, in their professional careers and for the course of the Olympics, they're first and foremost athletes trying to engage in the spirit of the Olympics; they're not commentators.
And if they want to be athletes at that level then what normally occurs is they agree to certain arrangements with their own sporting federations and with the Olympic federations. And that's a matter for them. And my only advice to them is that whatever conditions they've agreed to, they should abide by.
JIM MIDDLETON: On his way to China in Thailand just a few hours ago President Bush made a very blunt speech about China. Do you agree with him that China's citizens deserve the fundamental liberties that are the natural right of all human beings, quote unquote, and also support what he termed Washington's firm opposition to China's detention of dissidents, human right advocates - human rights advocates and religious activists?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, he repeated and reiterated what the United States administration, the United States position has been articulated as in the past, just as in recent days in our own language the Prime Minister and I have repeated our own strong concerns and our own views.
So that from President Bush was a reiteration of the United States position. In the last couple of days you've seen me and the Prime Minister reiterate in the Australian context our view, which is we continue to be seriously concerned about human rights breaches in China, whether it's Tibet, whether it's Falun Gong, whether it's a capacity for the Chinese people to engage in what we would regard as freedom of assembly or freedom of speech. And we make these points in a regular ongoing basis, primarily through our human rights dialogue. But we also make these points privately and publicly as the case requires.
JIM MIDDLETON: What about the broader issue though that wouldn't it be the case that China would win a lot more friends overseas and achieve its full potential if it did trust its citizens with their freedom, as George W Bush put it, rather than cracking down harder of dissent in the run-up to the Olympics and also trying to censor access to the Internet?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, this is just a different formulation of the Australian Government's longstanding position. And when I say the Australian Government, we've been very strong and robust in our period in office, but Australia as a nation-state stands for democratic participation and full and free expression.
And we mount that argument because we think that that is a good thing for individual citizens and a good thing for nation-states. And we we make that point, as I say, on a regular basis to the Chinese authorities through our annual human rights dialogue, but also from time to time when we regard it as being appropriate we do it publicly.
But the openness and transparency of the Chinese system, Chinese active engagement with the international community, these are the things that we say to the Chinese authorities they should do because we see that as being not just good for China but good for the region and good for the international community, and certainly good for their citizens.
JIM MIDDLETON: Finally, you're off to Indonesia again within the next few days. Have you had any formal advice from the Indonesian Government about the appeal of the Bali bombers against their death sentence?
STEPHEN SMITH: No, we've made it clear publicly and privately that we regard this as a matter for the Indonesian judicial and legal processes. My understanding is that the Bali bombers' lawyers have indicated an intention to launch a constitutional appeal. Whether that impacts upon the Indonesian judicial or legal processes, or any of those processes associated with their sentencing is a matter for the authorities. It's not something that we would be commenting upon or inveigling ourselves into.
JIM MIDDLETON: Stephen Smith, thanks very much for joining us on Newshour.
STEPHEN SMITH: Thanks Jim.
[Ends]
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