E&OE
16 July 2008
Media Conference by the Forum Ministerial Contact Group at the Forum Secretariat - Suva
Subject: Fiji
TU’A: Ladies and gentleman of the Press, as you know, we have been mandated by the Forum Foreign Ministers to visit Fiji. Our mandate was to gauge and assess the preparations for the first quarter of March 2009 elections. To this end we have had discussions with the interim Prime Minister, interim ministers, the National Council for Building a Better Fiji. We’ve had discussions with leaders of the political parties as well as with Sir Paul Reeves. I would like to say that we don’t have an open-ended mandate – it was just as I’ve said – to gauge the preparedness of Fiji for election in 2009 – a commitment which they made to the Forum in Tonga last year. We’ve had fruitful discussions with all the people that I’ve just mentioned and we will be reporting to the Forum Leaders when they meet in Niue. With that introduction, I give the floor to you.
JOURNALIST: You said you’ll have to assess what you’ve heard over the last couple of days. But, what are your initial thoughts on what you’ve heard on Fiji’s preparedness and the interim government’s willingness?
TU’A: We hold the view that the election is doable, I think, for 2009 and it’s a long time from now to March next year.
JOURNALIST: Did the interim Prime Minister in Fiji give you any indication that he was prepared to honour his commitment to go to the election in March 2009 under the current Constitution?
STEPHEN SMITH: I think our Chair has summarised it, as to use his words, an election by the end of March 2009 is imminently doable. A couple of points – Firstly, our mandate is to report to the Pacific Forum Leaders in Niue in August – four to five weeks away. So our report will be to them and we’ll do it to them privately as they are our leaders and not do that in advance through the media. That’s not said in any way critically, that’s just the process. Secondly, to conclude our report we have to engage in further consultations with the Prime Minister from Samoa who was here yesterday but for Parliamentary reasons returned to Samoa. We need to conclude our report in conjunction with him. In advance of that we’re not proposing to detail discussions or detail our conclusions. I think the key thing is the Ministerial Contact Group does not in any way relent from the Pacific Islands Forum’s objectives of an election in Fiji by the end of March 2009. And, there’s nothing that we saw or heard which will prevent that from occurring. Now, whether in the event that it is doable – to again use the Chairman’s phrase – it’s a long time between now and August.
JOURNALIST: The commitment that he gave was not just to hold the elections by March 2009; it was to hold the elections under the current Constitution and in a context in which anybody could run including members of the former government.
SMITH: It was, as I’ve said privately and publicly on many occasions – it was an unconditional commitment given by Commodore Bainimarama to the leaders of the Pacific Forum in Tonga in October 2007 that there would be an election in Fiji before the end of the first quarter of next year. What is the preliminary assessment that we’re able to give to you? There’s nothing that we’ve seen or heard which could prevent that from occurring. Whether it does time will tell. Now that depends ultimately on the political will of – in the first instance and primarily if not almost exclusively - the interim government. It may well also include the outcomes of political dialogue which is just now starting to occur in Fiji – which the Contact Group welcomes. Whether it’s earlier private talks between Mr Qarase and Commodore Bainimarama or whether it’s the political dialogue that on the basis of what we have heard over the last couple of days – sponsored by Sir Paul Reeves and the Commonwealth –which all political parties have indicated their preparedness to take part in. So, yes in the first instance. Almost entirely whether there’s an election or not will depend upon the political will of the interim Fiji government. But it may also be affected by the outcome of political dialogue which is just starting to occur in Fiji which we welcome and support.
JOURNALIST: Sir (Hon. Peters) – are you any more optimistic, sitting at this table today then before you left New Zealand?
WINSTON PETERS: The best way to describe it is that we’re better informed as to the logistical capacity and the timeframe of an election by March 2009. As the Chair has correctly put it – it’s doable –there’s no impediment in that context. It can and it obviously should happen.
JOURNALIST: But you’re not optimistic?
PETERS: Our duty is to report to the Leaders in Niue and if they want to evaluate the optimism or pessimism of various members they’ll no doubt ask us but this is a group effort by our colleagues and the Chair and I think that the report, when you do see it, will; be very expansive – as to the capability of an election being held.
JOURNALIST: In your meeting, did Commodore Bainimarama say that he will keep that promise – Did he say that he will have elections by March 2009?
SMITH: I’m happy for Winston to respond as well. But, we’re not proposing to detail the conversations that we had with any of the participants in our consultations over the past couple of days. We’re not proposing to go through the detail of conversations that we’ve had. We’re happy ultimately – when we deliver our report to the Leaders of the Pacific Islands Forum to make a judgement whether to make that report public or not will be entirely a matter for them. As a Contact Group we’re happy to stand by our report. We’re not proposing at this stage to go through the details of the conversations that we’ve had. That’s the first thing. Let me make a second point. The fact that we’re here, the fact that we’ve had this dialogue, the fact that we’ve had these conversations is of itself an unambiguously good thing. Just think of the significance of what has occurred over the last couple of days. Formally on behalf of the Pacific Forum, a Prime Minister from one country and five ministers from others have sat down, met with the interim government and met with the former Prime Minister and the former Leader of the Opposition. That is significant. Now, will there be an election by the end of March 2009 – time will tell. There’s nothing that we’ve seen or heard which would stand in the way of that occurring, providing that there is the political will. The political will in the first instance, primarily, if not exclusively from the Interim Government, but also the political dialogue that ensues between the political players in Fiji –we both encourage, and welcome.
JOURNALIST: Mr Smith, did you see any signs though whether that political will is there?
SMITH: Well, we’re now into July. Our report is to the Leaders in August and the timetable from our perspective and from the Forum’s perspective is the end of March next year. There is plenty of time for that to unfold.
PETERS: There is just one thing. We admit the possibility that in between drafting this report to go to the Prime Ministers at Niue, there can be emerging information which will better match up with it and which we should allow to emerge if it’s possible. So we don’t want to be putting ourselves in a sort of straight jacket and don’t admit there could be some significant developments between now and Niue.
JOURNALIST: Commodore Bainimarama has told media today that they’re not happy that the Contact Group met with Laisenia Qarase. What’s your response to that?
PETERS: Well it would not have been credible for us to have come here and not see the stakeholders in a democratic outcome which we are working on when they are the most critical and essential part of it. And, if you’re looking back the time of history, ten years from now, you would think it less credible then as we would have thought if we hadn’t gone through the exercise.
JOURNALIST: Isn’t that a pretty clear indication that the political will isn’t there - the regime is upset that you met with the Opposition leaders.
PETERS: Well they knew we were going to meet with the opposition leaders and they did not demur to us.
JOURNALIST: So they made no reference to it in their meetings with you about their concerns about your meeting opposition leaders?
SMITH: Well yesterday, when we met with the interim government, our Chairman and other members of the Contact Group made it quite clear that we were proposing to meet with other political parties, including the former Prime Minister….
JOURNALIST: So they had no choice?
SMITH: Well, it’s not a matter of choice. From Mr Peters’ point, he’s quite right. We did not believe that we could credibly come to Fiji and not have a conversation with the other main political players. Now, our mission was not a fact-finding mission. So there was no intention or requirement to meet everyone who had a view. But we didn’t believe that we could credibly report to the Forum Leaders without having a conversation with people like Mr Qarase and the former Opposition Leader. And I have to say just that yesterday we found our meetings civilised, professional, constructive and informative. So were our conversations today with the former Prime Minister and the former Opposition Leader in the same vein – very helpful from our perspective – and very informative and constructive.
JOURNALIST: You’re going to have a lot of people say that because you don’t release details - these are just talks with nothing achieved.
SMITH: Well there may be some people or commentators who may say that but can I say frankly that I’d prefer that then to front up to the Pacific Forum Leaders and say that a report that a report we would faithfully give to them we released to journalists before we had reached a conclusion. So, I’m happy to cop that criticism rather than fail to discharge the obligations that we have to the Pacific Islands Forum Leaders.
JOURNALIST: Mr Bainimarama said in an interview that the Contact Group said to him that it understands that electoral reforms have to take place first before the next election.
SMITH: I wouldn’t categorise our view in that way. And, as I say Commodore Bainimarama is entitled to say what he wants to say. I wouldn’t be categorising our position in that way. Did we have views put to us about the need for electoral and constitutional reform by the interim government and others? Yes, of course we did. Is the prospect of electoral or constitutional reform the potential subject of political dialogue between Commodore Bainimarama and Mr Qarase, or under Sir Paul Reeves’ process? Yes, of course it is. So, obviously in the course of our conversations people spoke to us about their view of the need for or the importance of political or electoral or constitutional reform. But, our starting point and our mandate of the Pacific Island Forum is to make a judgement about wether there is both a willingness and preparedness to meet the obligation that was given to the Pacific Islands Leaders Forum in Tonga in October on 2007 – an election by the end of March next year. Now, as the Chairman has said, as Mr Peters has said and as I have said, in different ways, we haven’t seen anything which would prevent that from occurring – provided in the end the political will is there. In respect of that, time will tell.
JOURNALIST: Mr Peters. Do you think that the sanctions imposed by Australia and New Zealand are helping or hindering this progress…?
PETERS: I can’t give you an exact read-out of that other than to say that the mass, or majority of Fijians support it. And, certainly the former Parliamentarians - opposition and government members – have made that very clear to us. You don’t change government at the barrel of a gun - it comes at a cost. And it was forewarned. The Commodore was told before the coup and immediately after what the consequences would be. They are no different from the year 2000 where we still have sanction s in place with respect to certain people who were involved in it. And we are here to prosecute a form of government to advance the interests of Fijian people economically and socially. We believe in democracy. We’re not going to sell our taxpayers or the Forum for that matter down the drain because someone doesn’t like it. That was what you could expect - as Thailand did – and when Thailand showed they were going to hold an election we eased up our sanctions and they held elections in December last year. All in the space of ten months. So it is possible.
JOURNALIST: Do you think that Commodore Bainimarama is coming under pressure because of the sanctions?
PETERS: Well we know that sanctions is a blight, that sanctions make it difficult for people. But they were carefully judged, they were carefully prepared – they were based on the same actions we took in 2000 and any statement to the Fijian people that a coup could happen and there would be quote “business as usual” end of quote was always going to be false. So again I say that position is heavily supported and I believe in Fiji and certainly we’ve had – and not just in the last two days – but I’ve had significant comment in support of that.
JOURNALIST: Inaudible.
PETERS: These are applied far more in sadness than in any punitive way. But you have to emphasise there is a cost of turfing out a legitimate government elected by the people and replacing it by an unmandated series of ministers. Otherwise, what is it that we’re doing here. Is it a case of us not caring to defend the values that we in the Forum and I believe now massively around the world that we subscribe to?
JOURNALIST: But in fact it was given leverage?
PETERS: Well I don’t think … one of the participants said they’d be complaining if it wasn’t.
SMITH: Given that Australia also has sanctions, can I just make a couple of remarks. These are in the nature of a bilateral discussion - Australia-Fiji/New Zealand–Fiji, rather than a Forum matter. We had a number of views put to us that we should cease our sanctions. Another view that was put to the Contact Group was that more Pacific Forum states could also [indistinct] sanctions.
Australia’s position is quite straightforward. To apply Mr Peters’ expressions, we apply sanctions to Fiji more in sorrow than in anger. They were in response to a military coup which displaced a democratically elected government and our attitude to sanctions is quite clear and straight forward. When we see real progress towards the holding of an election, then we will look at our sanctions. There’s a very easy solution to Australia ceasing its sanctions - its travel sanctions so far as Fiji is concerned. It’s called a full, free, fair and democratic election. It’s a very easy solution to Australia ceasing the sanctions.
In the meantime, as I said more generally, the mere fact that we’re here having dialogue is a good and constructive thing and when we see the interim Fiji government do something that we regard as a good thing to do, we respond accordingly. So, for example in recent weeks the Fiji government announced, albeit, belatedly, but nonetheless announced the appointment of an Elections Supervisor, I responded by authorising the appointment to Australia of an acting High Commissioner and a Consul General for Sydney. Now, why did I do that? It’s not in Australia’s interest not to have a good relationship with Fiji. It’s not in New Zealand’s interest to not have a good relationship with Fiji. It’s not in the region’s interest. We want Fiji to return to the region as a fully-fledged member. We want it to be business as usual. There’s one way to ensure that its business as usual – that’s to conduct a full, free and fair election with the participation of al political players. When that occurs, travel sanctions between Fiji and Australia will not be an issue.
JOURNALIST: A question for the Tongan Minister. It was in your country last year that Bainimarama said that he would have an election by March next year under the current rule under which any one can stand. Since then he’s changed his position quite dramatically. Are you sad at the developments since that meeting last year?
TU’A: I’m not happy.
JOURNALIST: Why not?
TU’A: I think it’s already been stated. What is doable. Things that can be done between now and March and we sincerely hope that things will move forward.
JOURNALIST: So were you sad to hear Mr Bainimarama tell the European Union that elections could be delayed?
TU’A: No. I wasn’t here.
JOURNALIST: Are you concerned that the Electoral Commission has said that they cannot give you a set time frame?
PETERS: Well two answers to that. First of all it’s disappointing but the second thing is there is no logistical obstruction or impediment for them to be able to do the job in complete time for a March election. Why not.
JOURNALIST: Based on whose assessment?
PETERS: Based on my assessment, based on the fact I was there in 2006 at the same Electoral Office examining the books and processes and if they needed New Zealand specialists (called) Whelan who we lent to them then. They’ve got a census now which is a more accurate base to build it on. There is no impediment if you provide the resources and the support and the commitment to complete the plan.
JOURNALIST: You said there was plenty of time to hold an election. Will there come a point, if they don’t start getting things rolling they’ll run out of time?
PETERS: Yes they will but that point has not been reached now. Let me just make this very clear though – our colleagues, the Forum supports the view that an election does not mean the complete answer to Fiji or as it does to any other country. That there is a need for electoral reform. There may well be a serious need for Constitutional reform. All of those things though, should not be an impediment to holding an election because the only way those things can happen in any durable way is that they receive a mandated Parliament and pass them into law. Otherwise you cannot see how it could possibly happen in any circumstances so they’d look democratic.
JOURNALIST: If they don’t get the ball rolling then it will be too late for an election will it not?
PETERS: Well there will come a time when, if they’ve wasted their time, it will be impossible. But that time is not yet. And in the modern context with computerisation, borrowing the various voting facilities and technologies around the Pacific means you can conduct an election today in greater speed than ever before. So I don’t think we’re any where near the end of time. But frankly, if you wasted time then you run the risk of sadly impairing the capacity of a full and open and properly conducted election.
JOURNALIST: Do you believe that Fiji needs electoral and constitutional reform and which sort of governance would ensure that that’s done?
SMITH: Well I’ll go first and then give my colleagues a chance to respond.
One thing we did again repeat yesterday to the interim government was that all of the Forum members stand ready, wiling and able immediately to render both technical and other assistance in as far as Electoral Commission and preparations for an election is concerned. I think it is clear from what we said yesterday and today that we were concerned about the conversation we’ve had there, but, as Mr Peters and the Chairman from Tonga had said – we’re not anywhere near the point where it’s impossible to hold an election. So far as the other reforms are concerned, I say simply this… whatever reforms, electoral or constitutional - the political players in Fiji determine to adopt, none of that should stand in the way of holding an election in accordance with the unconditional and faithful undertaking given by Commodore Bainimarama to the Tonga Forum in 2007. How electoral or constitutional or other reform in Fiji emerges ultimately is a matter for political parties and political players in Fiji. Consideration of that, while it may well run parallel in track to preparations for an election it should not be something that deflects from it all.
HON. SAM ABAL: To answer the question I think every country, every electoral process needs to be reformed any which way. For Fiji they have some complicated issues right here and they would need some reforms and look into the area of electoral reform and that. But definitely for us through elected government through normal processes is the way to go. I don’t think we’re trying to push back from that. The process is for the Contact Group to try and get that process going and you should appreciate our situation here trying to discuss things before we go to our Leaders. The process is there, we don’t want to cut through it, especially if something positive can come out of it. Every meeting, every contact group, every positive thing that’s come out like the Commonwealth process and all that – all that needs to be encouraged onto that you know. We would like, in the end for free elections and transparent elections which in the Pacific is important for us.
JOURNALIST: Why exactly are you calling for elections when the country is not ready?
PETERS: Well I’ve got an answer to that. Who in Fiji have you had a survey of to come to that opinion that the people here aren’t ready to exercise their own will freely and openly in an election? Have you done a poll on that? Because it is my belief that 85% of the people in this country would like to take part in an election. The second answer is – so you’ve organised the reforms, you’ve organised the Constitutional changes – but how are you going to bring them into action? Make them a part of legal and structural lawful life of Fiji? You have to have a mandated Parliament to do that.
JOURNALIST: That’s a real issue Mr Minister. Commodore Bainimarama has said he will have an election after electoral reform
PETERS: But how do you have reform and no one has approved it into law? I’m asking you. You’re an intelligent person. How do you have reform if you haven’t put it into law? And, what’s the vehicle to do that? Well, it’s called Parliament.
JOURNALIST: What if he goes ahead with what he has to say?
PETERS: Well, I’m asking you. You’re a journalist, you ask them.
[Ends]
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