E&OE
13 July 2008
Interview - Sky News “Sunday Agenda”
Subjects: Fiji, Afghanistan, East Timor
HELEN DALLEY: First, Afghanistan, where a member of the elite SAS became the sixth Australian soldier to be killed fighting the Taliban. Twenty-five year old Sean McCarthy was killed in a roadside explosion on his second tour in Afghanistan. Even as the tributes poured in for Signaller McCarthy, the chief of the Defence Force Angus Houston said the tragic loss would be a trigger for more and more active operations against the Taliban.
Well, joining us now from Perth to discuss the war in Afghanistan and democracy in Fiji among other things, he is the Foreign Minister Stephen Smith.
Welcome to Sunday Agenda, Minister.
STEPHEN SMITH: Thanks very much, Helen.
DALLEY: Now, before we talk about Afghanistan and Fiji, there are reports in the paper today about the Prime Minister. Now, you've worked very closely with him - is Kevin Rudd a foul mouthed MP?
SMITH: [Laughs] Well, I would be the first one to acknowledge that when I've been frustrated from time to time, I have sworn, and that's regrettable. I'm not going to say I've never heard Kevin swear, but in moments of frustration, we all do exhibit those tendencies. But I think Kevin is very calm, he's very conscientious, very hard working, and deals with people, whether they're staff or other people, you know, in a civilised and dignified manner.
But of course, from time to time, we all get a bit frustrated, and sometimes we exhibit that by swearing. But other than that, I think Kevin deals very well with people, and it's a bit of storm in a teacup. We should simply, you know, move on and get on with the real work.
DALLEY: All right, well, let's move on to your portfolio. I understand you are about to announce an important meeting tomorrow in Fiji, with other Pacific Island Forum foreign ministers; and it'll be the first visit by an Australian Foreign Minister since the December 2006 coup.
SMITH: Yes that's right. Australia is part of the Pacific Island Forum Foreign Ministerial [sic] - ministerial contact group. It was established in Auckland earlier this year. It has Tonga who chairs the ministerial contact group, Samoa, Papua New Guinea, Tuvalu, Australia and New Zealand. We'll be leaving tomorrow for Fiji, and the task of the contact group is to make a judgement about whether Fiji, the interim Fiji government, is moving towards an election by the end of the first quarter next year.
That was the undertaking that the interim Fiji government gave to the Pacific Island Forum Leaders meeting in Tonga in 2007. We're there to make a judgement about whether that, the preparation for an election, is serious; and also to engage in a dialogue with the interim - with the interim Fiji government.
DALLEY: Well, how will you be dealing with that commitment to elections early next year? I mean, can you force them?
SMITH: Well, I have to say, and I've expressed this scepticism in the past, that Australia is sceptical about the true intentions of the interim government. But in recent weeks, they have appointed an election supervisor, and that's a positive sign and we've welcomed that. And Australia has responded to that by announcing approval for some diplomatic appointments by the interim government to Australia, an acting High Commissioner and also a Consul-General in Sydney.
But we can make a judgement on the ground, engage in a discussion with the interim government, establish a dialogue, and then our role is to report to the Pacific Island Forum Leaders meeting in Niue in August. But we're there to try and make a judgement about whether they're making true preparations for an election, but also to make the point that not just Australia but all the Pacific Island Forum stand ready, willing and able to assist in terms of the holding or the conduct of that election.
DALLEY: Okay. You say you'll be discussing with senior members of the interim government; will that include the Fijian leader Frank Bainimarama as well?
SMITH: Well, this stage the ministerial contact group is scheduled to have a meeting with Mr Bainimarama, the interim Prime Minister, Commodore Bainimarama - and that's as it should be. And we'll also be meeting with other senior members of the interim government. And I hope that the opportunity will arise for a broader dialogue; not just the holding of the election, but also a broader dialogue about returning Fiji to not just a democratic state, but a state where the rule of law and human rights are respected.
And as you said in your introduction; it's the first time an Australian Foreign Minister has gone to Fiji since the coup in 2006, so we regard it as a significant event. We don't go lightly, we go as part of the Pacific Forum contact group, and we'll be making a judgment as part of that contact group about whether the interim government is truly serious about returning to democracy and returning to the respect for the rule of law and respect for democratic rights and freedoms.
DALLEY: When you say also you're a bit sceptical; how hopeful are you of a restoration of full democracy in Fiji? Because, I mean, we've seen a clamp down on press freedom, particularly this year, and newspaper editors expelled from there.
SMITH: Absolutely. And Australia has been very critical of that conduct by the interim Fiji government. Look, it's absolutely essential in Australia's view that Fiji return to democracy. Fiji is a very important nation-state in the Pacific. It has tremendous economic potential. Unfortunately that economic potential has fallen by the wayside with the coup. But if Fiji could be returned to democracy, could return to a proper role in the Pacific, then that would be a very good thing not just in terms of Fiji's relationship with Australia and New Zealand and the other Pacific Island states, but also a very good thing for the region.
So, Australia is very much encouraging of Fiji returning to democracy, and we stand ready, willing and able to render whatever assistance we can.
DALLEY: Turning to Afghanistan, where the Rudd Government has vowed to stay the course despite the death of an sixth Australian soldier there: are you concerned about a surge in the presence of al-Qaeda fighters on the border with Pakistan and elsewhere? Some analysts have called the border areas an absolute breeding ground of terrorism: can you do anything to stop that, because the other side look like they have the upper hand?
SMITH: Well, I'm not sure that's right. We know that Afghanistan is difficult and dangerous, and yes, we've seen the recent tragic death of Sean McCarthy; that followed on from the tragic death of Lance Corporal Marks; and so these deaths are tragic. We've had six deaths, and that's terrible for Australia and terrible for the families concerned.
We are very concerned about the state of the Afghanistan/Pakistan border. This is a point that the Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon and the Prime Minister made when they were at the NATO Bucharest conference, and a point I made when I was in Paris recently for the Afghanistan Donors Conference.
But we believe that progress is being made. There was a greater NATO commitment out of the Bucharest conference, in terms of a military contribution; and a greater civil reconstruction commitment, made as a result of the Paris Donors Conference.
But we've made the point that the Afghanistan-Pakistan border can't be regarded as just an issue between Afghanistan and Pakistan: it's a regional and international security issue, and has to be treated as such.
DALLEY: Well, now, some of the same criticism levelled against foreign forces fighting in Iraq now appears to be being levelled against troops in Afghanistan - two years ago they were seen as liberators, now they're seen as occupiers. Is that correct, is that what you're hearing and seeing evidence of?
SMITH: Well, I was in Afghanistan recently myself, in Kabul and Tarin Kowt where the Australian Special Forces and also the Australian Reconstruction Taskforce is situated. I think the key thing in Afghanistan now is, yes, we need to have a continuing enhanced international military and civil reconstruction commitment. The difficulties in Afghanistan obviously go to maintaining peace and security, but also we need to make sure that there is good governance in the Afghanistan government itself. We have to build the capacity of the Afghanistan state institutions to manage their own affairs, and we've got to deal with the narcotics issue. They're, I think, the four key issues. That can only be done with both a military and combat enforcement, but also with a civil reconstruction effort.
And I think the Australian activity in the south has been very successful, because it involves not just maintaining peace and security in very difficult circumstances, but also rebuilding and reconstruction and helping Afghanistan put itself in a position where the Government and the people can manage their own affairs.
That's the key. No-one underestimates how difficult that is, nor the need for a long term commitment to effect that. It's difficult and dangerous...
DALLEY: [Interrupts] All right, well, Minister, are...
SMITH: ...work. It will take time.
DALLEY: Are we winning the war in Afghanistan against the Taliban?
SMITH: Well, my assessment when I was there - and it shared by the military people that I spoke to - was that we are making progress. We are now very much back into the fighting season, so what's now occurring was not unexpected. And yes, the Taliban have had some successes in recent weeks and months. But this is a long term struggle. It's absolutely in Australia's national security interest to be there, because we now know that Afghanistan, particularly that Afghanistan-Pakistan border area, is currently the hotbed of international terrorism. That's very mobile, and it can just as easily go north to Europe as it can go south to South East Asia.
And we've already been - Australia has already been on the adverse consequences of terrorist activity in South East Asia.
So it's a long term commitment, and that's the commitment that Australia has made, and that's the commitment, the renewed commitment, that we've seen from NATO forces and from the international community generally, out of these two very important international conferences in Bucharest and Paris recently.
DALLEY: Okay. Well just turning to other parts of South East Asia: according to a research paper for the US Department of Defence, there are reports in Thailand of some fraternisation between Thai Muslims, the Taliban and al-Qaeda remnants in Pakistan. Now the Government there is a bit rocky, the foreign minister whom you met recently resigned this week. The military may take over again, which raises fears that the locals may throw in their lot with the insurgents.
Are you concerned about an insurgency in southern Thailand?
SMITH: Well, I was in Thailand recently, and it's very import... part of my visit was to make the point that we welcomed very much the return to democracy by Thailand, and underlined very much the ongoing important of Thailand remaining in a state of democracy. Yes, the current government does have its political difficulties, and yes, we do know that there is a insurgency problem in the south. But - and I met with the recently resigned Foreign Minister Noppadon and made all of those points, as I did to the deputy Prime Minister and other senior ministers.
So Australia continues to work very well with the Thai government, and we continue to render assistance with the difficult problem that Thailand has in southern Thailand, so far as insurgency is concerned.
Thailand's a very important nation because it'll become the chair of ASEAN at the end of this month, and Australia will work very closely, both bilaterally, but also as chair of ASEAN, to deal with these issues.
But Thailand does have a problem in the south, and we are rendering assistance.
DALLEY: Okay. I do want to get some comments before we run out of time, Minister, on the final report of the Truth and Friendship Commission on East Timor will be handed to the presidents of Indonesia and East Timor tomorrow; but leaked copies reveal that Indonesia is held responsible for gross human rights violations and murders by the militias that were funded, armed and supported by the Indonesian government, military and police. Now, do you think that Australia that... believes that Indonesia will follow through on this report, and actually punish those responsible?
SMITH: Well, firstly, I'm not going to comment on suggested leaked reports. I will wait until I see the officially released copy, which we understand that the presidents of Indonesia and East Timor will do in the course of this week. I think the important - there are two important things: firstly, that both Indonesia and East Timor jointly accept the recommendations and jointly agree about a way forward. The Truth and Recon... the Reconciliation and Friendship Commission has as part of its objective, tried to draw a line of the terrible events of the past and to move forward. Both Indonesia and East Timor have indicated publicly already that they will accept the recommendations of the Commission, and that's a good thing, and Australia will render whatever assistance we can for the implementation of those recommendations.
But as to the detail, I'll simply wait until I see the final report, which we expect this week.
DALLEY: But do you think they should end up prosecuting people and putting some in jail who were responsible?
SMITH: Well, let's see what the
recommendations are. As I've said, Indonesia and East Timor
have already indicated a joint willingness to jointly accept
and implement the recommendations of the report, so let's wait
and see what the recommendations of the report are; and see the
response, the joint response, of Indonesia and Timor.
I think the most important thing is that Indonesia and East Timor work together by agreement on the way forward, when we see the publication of the Truth and Friendship Report.
DALLEY: Minister, we'll leave it there. Thanks very much for joining us from Perth.
SMITH: Thanks very much, Helen, thank you.
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