Interview - Lateline

Subjects: Zimbabwe, Trilateral Strategic Dialogue

TONY JONES: The Foreign Affairs Minister Stephen Smith will fly to Japan tomorrow where among other things he'll discuss the international community 's responsibility for Zimbabweans.

He joined me in our Canberra studio a short time ago. Stephen Smith, thanks for joining us.

STEPHEN SMITH: Pleasure, Tony.

JONES: Archbishop Desmond Tutu has told us tonight the UN should be preparing for direct multinational intervention into Zimbabwe to save lives. Now as you know, Archbishop Tutu is one of the main, or one of the great moral voices in Africa, do you take this call seriously?

SMITH: Well certainly we think the United Nations and the Security Council should be increasing its interest and increasing its activity. We welcomed very much overnight the statements by the UN Secretary-General Ban-Ki Moon. We also welcomed the discussion at the Security Council and the statement released by the President of the Security Council all of which point to a campaign of violence by the brutal Mugabe regime, no capacity for a full and free and fair election and the need for the state-sanctioned violence to stop and the chance for the Zimbabwe people to express their view or their will.

And we have been today instructing our mission in the United Nations to suggest to the Secretary-General that there be a fully fledged debate in the Security Council on Zimbabwe, an open debate in which Australia would be able to take part. We certainly think there should be more robust activity by the UN. We welcome what's occurred overnight. Whether in the first instance you can get any international support for, if you like, for an enforcement action is frankly very problematic. One of the problems we've had before with the Security Council is of course the use of the veto.

But certainly we want the UN to be playing a more active role, just as we've been saying for some time, we want the Southern African Development Community states and the African Union states to be taking the primary regional responsibility for bringing the brutal Mugabe regime under control, putting pressure on them and trying to get something of a decent outcome in Zimbabwe.

JONES: Archbishop Tutu is saying the debate in the UN should be about the emerging doctrine of the responsibility to protect. That is the responsibility of the world community to act in concert to protect the oppressed citizens in these extreme circumstances such as the people in Zimbabwe are under?

SMITH: Certainly the notion of the responsibility to protect is an emerging principle or theory of international law, and it has arisen, the discussion of it has arisen as a result of the failure of the international community in the past to meet quickly enough these terrible situations.

Again, the problem, so far as implementing a notion of responsibility to protect is that you would require to effect international enforcement action, again the cooperation of the Security Council, and of course the worry of the use of the veto.

JONES: Can I just interrupt you there on the veto question because one of the things that Australia now prides itself on is a new, powerful relationship with China, it's China's veto primarily we're talking about. Is there a role for a direct conversation with the Chinese to ask them to back off?

SMITH: Well, it's not just China who have exercised the veto power in the past, it's not the only nation state who has a veto power.

But Australia has been very active and very robust on this issue. We've been saying for some time that there's been a campaign of intimidation, that there was limited prospect of a full and free and fair election. We certainly support Mr Tsvangirai's decision and that, I think, has crystallised action within the Southern African Development Community states, the African Union and the UN itself and we've been urging all those parties to be playing a greater role.

JONES: Here's my question though, do you think Desmond Tutu's intervention here, as I said a great moral voice in Africa calling for intervention to save lives, do you think that will resonate and become part of this debate?

SMITH: Absolutely, and I think that's a very powerful, a very powerful voice adding to the arguments, to the African Union and Southern African Development Community states and the UN to seize some responsibility and to act.

Now in the last 24 hours, I have been, for example, in conversation with my Zambian and Tanzanian counterparts urging their further action and welcoming the fact that their respective presidents who chair SADC and the African Union for their robust comments about Mr Mugabe and about the need for action in Zimbabwe and in one of my conversations, one of my African colleagues made the point that Australia's voice is heard and essentially the advice was keep shouting because when you shout it makes it easier for the African countries who want change in Zimbabwe to put pressure on Mugabe.

I think on the morals, Desmond Tutu is absolutely right. Mugabe has no moral clothes whatsoever. He has no legitimacy, either electoral or democratic and the best thing that could occur for all concerned would be for Mugabe to simply walk off the stage and leave. He's shown no inclination to do that. He's shown a desire to stay by force of arms, even if in the unlikely event Tsvangirai was to win a poll, he indicated he would stay in any event. And that's why we need pressure in the first instance the pressure from the relevant African nation states. We want South Africa, Zambia, Botswana, Tanzania to be putting maximum pressure on the brutal regime, and that, we think in the first instance, together with UN Security Council discussion, is the best way to try and make progress in what is a very dire situation.

JONES: Alright, you're about to go to Japan, you'll have the chance for your voice, for Australia's voice to be heard at very senior levels at G8 Foreign Ministers including the Secretary of State for the United States, Condoleezza Rice.

Will you be making arguments about Zimbabwe and this whole point about responsibility to protect while you're there?

SMITH: Absolutely. I'm going to Japan tomorrow evening. There's a G8 Foreign Ministers meeting, we're having a Trilateral Strategic Dialogue with the United States and Japan which is very important to Japan and very important for our region and very important to Australia.

But I'll be having bilateral conversations with the majority of the G8 Foreign Ministers and on Zimbabwe I'll be making a range of points that Australia has been at the forefront so far as sanctions are concerned. We are reviewing our sanctions to see if we can make them more effective and looking particularly at adding to the list of travel sanctions. We want to make sure those international sanctions are coordinated, the United States, the European Union, the United Kingdom, with Australia, have been at the forefront.

We'll be urging a range of countries to contemplate sanctions and also urging further action before the Security Council and making the point that we do have an emerging principle or theory of international law which is about the responsibility to protect and we want the international community and the relevant African regional community to take action here to prevent a very dire situation getting much worse.

JONES: Stephen Smith, we'll have to leave you there. We thank you very much once again for coming to join us on Lateline.

SMITH: It’s my pleasure Tony. Thanks very much.

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