Interview – Radio National Breakfast

STEVE CANNANE: Let's cross to Papua New Guinea where the Foreign Minister has been attending the first PNG-Australia Ministerial Forum in three years. There are some key outcomes. Fifteen million dollars for the protection and development of the Kokoda Track and the possibility of forest carbon trading, which could put an end to the country's rainforest timber exports by 2010.

Foreign Affairs Minister Stephen Smith co-chaired that particular forum and he joins us now from Madang.

Good morning, Minister.

STEPHEN SMITH: Good morning, Steve.

CANNANE: The agreement on the Kokoda Track and the Owen Stanley Ranges promises sustainable development for communities along the track. What are we talking about here?

SMITH: Well, what we want to do is to make sure that we retain the track for its iconic, historic value. It's very precious, so far as Australians are concerned. And today, the day before Anzac Day, just reinforces that. But also, there are obviously landowners along the track and local communities.

So what we've tried to do is to have a joint understanding with PNG where we secure the historic and iconic value of the Track, but also we have some sustainable economic and social development for the local communities who live along the Track, to try and make sure that they get some benefit from people who use the Track.

And so, we've committed $15 million through the joint understanding to advance those things. We think it's quite historic. We think it'll secure the Track's place in Australia's history and also in PNG's history, but enable the PNG Government and the local communities to craft out a better social and economic future for the people who live along the Track.

CANNANE: So where does that now leave the prospect of mining development along the track? Can you say now that that won't be raised again?

SMITH: Well, whether in the future the PNG Government considers mining applications or exploration leases in the vicinity will be a matter for them. There's one current application that's been in the public arena. My understanding is that the PNG Government is giving consideration to that.

I also understand that one of the issues that they have to give consideration to is whatever impact it potentially might have on water catchment. Because the area that we're talking about in the future is going to play a very important role for Port Moresby's water and the water catchment area. So, that'll be a matter for the PNG Government.

But the strength, if you like, of the agreement that we've struck with the PNG Government arising out of yesterday's Ministerial Forum, is that we've got an understanding that we want sustainable development for the communities along the Track, we want to preserve the historic values of the Track, and we also want to make sure that environmental considerations, like water and the special biodiversity values of the Owen Stanley Range, are protected and preserved.

But equally, there has to be some economic role for the local communities who live along the Track. And we think that without contribution and with this understanding, all of these things can be met into the future.

CANNANE: Let's switch to something else that was discussed yesterday, and that is the new forest carbon partnership between Australia and PNG. It was the main topic at the forum. What does this deliver for PNG?

SMITH: Well, it was one of the main topics we covered. It was the first Forum we've had since 2005 and the Forum yesterday really put the relationship back on track. But climate change and the forest carbon partnership and our $3 million contribution to help produce reforestation in PNG was an important part of it. Some of our close neighbours, PNG and Indonesia, have got vast tracks of forest and degradation of forests is one of the things which has an adverse impact on climate change.

So we've got a partnership with PNG where we try and help PNG become more adept and more capable at the monitoring and measurement of forest carbon, and that's what the $3 million was about yesterday. So we're working very closely with PNG on climate change issues. And a lot of that because of the vast tracks of forests that PNG has is important, the forest carbon partnership is an important part of that.

CANNANE: How will PNG sell carbon credits for its forest into future international emissions trading schemes? Will PNG develop its own scheme or be attached in some way to Australia's scheme?

SMITH: Well, Australia's made it clear that we want to develop, as you know, an Australian emissions trading scheme. We've also made it clear we'll explore, for example, whether that might be able to be linked into other systems, but I think that's very much a long way down the track.

CANNANE: But you think it's likely that PNG will be a part of our scheme?

SMITH: I think that's a very, very long way down the track. I don't think that's anywhere near the first issue that either Australia or PNG has to grapple with. One of the first things that PNG has to grapple with is if we're moving down the road of an emissions trading system throughout the world, if we're moving down the road of a PNG emissions trading system, one of the things you have to be able to measure is to measure forest carbon. To be able to monitor the carbon in packs of forest degradation; to be able to measure that.

And that's really what the $3 million was all about, to try and start building the expertise to enable PNG to start measuring and building these things. If you can't make any sensible measurement about what's occurring in your forests, if you're a country like PNG, it's going to be very difficult, if not impossible, to craft out a form of sensible emissions trading system.

But whether, in a very, very long way down the track, there was some interlinkage between Australia's system and PNG's system, or indeed Australia's system or Indonesia's system, that's - that's very far off down the track. In the first instance, we've go to just keep on pursuing the post Bali climate change agenda and road map. And so far as our neighbours like PNG are concerned, do what we can to help them get the expertise and the capability of crafting out their own systems as well.

CANNANE: Minister, how do you deliver on these aid promises when your Department is facing cuts? I mean, it's lost 25 per cent of its staff since 1995 and it's now facing budget cuts of $109 million on the forward estimates to 2011. How can you do more with less?

SMITH: Well, the budget will be out in a couple of weeks and people can have a very close look at what we're doing in terms of our development assistance. Australia as a nation has got a proud record of development assistance, not just in our region in the Asia Pacific but generally. PNG is our second largest donor country after Indonesia and we've committed ourselves over the next decade to increase our development assistance.

So, I think when people see the budget they'll be able to see precisely what we're doing in terms of development assistance, but also see what we're doing in terms of what we need to do to tighten our belts, so far as the department is concerned. You know, in your introduction I think you referred, with Michelle Grattan, to yesterday's inflation figure. You know, it's the first time in many years we've had inflation with a four in front of it. We have to tighten our belt and what we do in our own department is part of that.

But that is a separate matter from the program that we have for development assistance and our aspiration in the long term is to substantially increase that. It was one of our key election commitments, to substantially increase our development assistance over the long haul.

CANNANE: Minister, if we can just quickly go to the issue of Zimbabwe? British PM Gordon Brown is pushing for a total arms embargo against Zimbabwe. Is that something you support?

SMITH: Well, Australia is not an arms exporter, so in a national sense it doesn't apply to us. The United Kingdom is an arms exporter. But could I just say I very, very strongly support what Gordon Brown is trying to do, both in terms of keeping the weights on the brutal Mugabe regime to try and get them to recognise the wishes of the Zimbabwe people.

And I very strongly support what Mr Brown is doing in trying to ensure that no further arms get into Zimbabwe. So, we strongly support the sentiment that he's been expressing so far as people trying to get arms into Zimbabwe at the present time is concerned.

CANNANE: Stephen Smith, thanks for talking to us this morning.

SMITH: Thanks very much.

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