E&OE
28 March 2008
Interview on Sky News
DAVID SPEERS: And Stephen Smith does join us now from Perth. Minister, thanks for your time. If we can start with Tibet, the journalists who are finally allowed in and shown around yesterday there were done so under fairly tight control from Chinese officials. Will the diplomatic delegation also be carefully shepherded around?
STEPHEN SMITH: Well, we hope that it is not stage managed, and we hope that the diplomats - there are 17 of them, including our own - get the opportunity of firstly, in our case, making sure of the safety and welfare of the small number of Australians remaining in Lhasa, but secondly, to have a look at how things are on the ground.
We certainly think it is a step in the right direction. We have been making the point for a few weeks now that we think it is in China's interests for there to be openness and transparency. We requested some time ago that our diplomats be given access to Lhasa and late yesterday afternoon, early evening yesterday, we were advised that they had been invited to take part in this delegation.
So it's a step in the right direction. I expect to get a report either towards the end of the weekend, or very early next week, so we look forward to having a look at the report that we get. But we certainly hope it's not stage-managed.
SPEERS: Well, yes. You said it's a step in the right direction. But it took a long time to take this step. You requested this diplomatic access more than a week ago. Finally it has been granted. Is this really the act of a good friend?
SMITH: Well, we have been making the point generally, so far as Tibet is concerned, that - and we have been making these points to China both publicly and privately - firstly, that they should be acting with restraint; secondly, they have got to engage in a dialogue with the Tibetan people about autonomy, about respecting human rights.
Of course, we respect China's sovereignty over Tibet. But for a long period Australia, and other nations generally - and certainly this Government - has been saying to China, you have got to have a sensible dialogue with them, including with the Dalai Lama. And so far as openness and transparency is concerned, we think it is actually in China's interests for them to open up to enable international scrutiny. That is the best way of giving confidence about what is happening on the ground. We certainly think it's in China's interests.
SPEERS: But was this delay good enough? Given we have got four Australians that we know of who are there in Tibet.
SMITH: Firstly, we have had, from the moment that these troubles started we have had anywhere up to 20 odd Australians there. We have been monitoring their safety and welfare. The vast bulk of those have left, and fortunately, all the advice we have had is that the Australians who are in Lhasa or surrounding areas are fine, that their safety and welfare is okay. But certainly, our diplomat will check on that in the next couple of days in Lhasa itself.
Of course, we would have preferred access earlier. Of course, we would prefer that China was adopting this approach on an ongoing basis.
We think that is in China's interest, and we think that is the best way of trying to give some confidence that, in a longer term, the rights of the people of Tibet might be respected, particularly their human rights. And that is a point we have been making to China publicly and privately. And they have certainly noticed what we have been saying. Otherwise, we don't believe that we would have been invited to form part of the delegation.
SPEERS: You have expressed concern, you have called for more dialogue between the Chinese and the Tibetans. You - but essentially, the Government in Australia is saying you will agree to disagree on this, because the Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd is about to go there. He is about to pay a visit to the Chinese president. Doesn't this send a message that we're indeed not so worried about what is happening there, and more concerned about bigger trade deals with China.
SMITH: Well, I don't think that analysis is right. I think that the comments that the Prime Minister and I have been making, the messages we have been sending publicly and privately to China, are more robust messages about China and human rights than have been sent in the decade before. That's the first point. Secondly...
SPEERS: But you've not condemned China's actions.
SMITH: Well, we have called for restraint. And we have made it clear we are very uncomfortable and very unhappy with what we have been seeing, and we think there should be transparency, we think there should be scrutiny, we think there should be the opportunity of the international community to be having a look. And we certainly think that in terms of the rights of the Tibetan people, there should be a dialogue with the Dalai Lama, and the human rights of the Tibetan people should be respected.
They are entitled in a peaceful and peaceable way to put their point of view. And these are the points that we have been pressing. As you say, so far as the Prime Minister is concerned, he is about to start his meetings in Washington. He will have a conversation with President Bush about Tibet and when he goes to China of course he will raise these issues, as he has made clear that he will.
But we see our relationship with China where, yes, we have a very important economic relationship with China. But we have made it clear, as I did with the Chinese foreign minister, Mr Yang, when he was in Australia in February, that we will continue to raise human rights issues and the questions and issues about Tibet on an ongoing regular basis.
We have made that clear. And we are not proposing to desist or resile from that approach.
SPEERS: Just a final one on China. The French President is threatening to boycott the opening ceremony of the Beijing Olympics. Do you think that would send a meaningful or powerful message to China?
SMITH: No. I have made it clear that I don't think boycotting the Olympics, either in whole or in part, is the sensible approach. I think that we should use the fact that the Olympics are in China to engage China in an ongoing way about these matters. I think we should treat the Olympics in the manner in which the Olympics spirit and the great opportunity the Olympics provides, to be an uplifting occasion. And I certainly don't think that it is in our interests to be contemplating a boycott in whole, or in part, which we are certainly not.
We have seen boycotts of Olympic Games in the past. They haven't been successful. And I don't believe that that suggested approach is a correct one. It's certainly not a road we will be going down.
SPEERS: All right. Now Kevin Rudd is meeting President Bush tomorrow. Clearly, amongst other things, Iraq will be on the agenda. Australia is withdrawing its combat troops, but is the Australian Government willing to send in perhaps more civilian trainers to Iraq?
SMITH: Well, we are implementing our election commitment. And you recall that when we said in the course of the election campaign, over a long period of time, that we would withdraw the over watch battle group from Iraq, the Liberal Party and the National Party said that that would cause the alliance with the United States to be torn asunder. Well, of course, that is not occurring.
We have seen very good relations with the United States since we came to office, and the Prime Minister's trip is reflecting that - meeting with the President and the Vice President, and meeting with the Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, and the Defence Secretary Mr Gates. So of course we are doing that withdrawal in consultation with them, and it is being done in an orderly fashion.
And we have made it clear that whilst we are withdrawing that combat role, we do see that there are other things that we can do: helping to build the capacity of the Iraqi people to govern their affairs, and humanitarian assistance as well. So we are looking for example at the possibility of police training. So we think building the capacity of the Iraqi Government and the Iraqi people to manage their own affairs is a very important part of the ongoing role that we can play together with other nations.
SPEERS: Would that be a Federal Police role ...
SMITH: And we're implementing ...
SPEERS: ... a new role for the Federal Police, perhaps, in Iraq, that training role?
SMITH: Well, we are looking at the possibility of providing some form of training for police, for Iraqi police, and we are looking at how we might be able to effect that. But that is not the only thing we are looking at. Looking, for example, at how we can assist them in educational matters, how we can assist them in the training of their own people, how we can assist them in their capacity to administer their legal and justice systems.
These are all things where we think we can help.
SPEERS: The Bush Administration is only in office until January. Do you think it would be a good idea for the Prime Minister to also meet some of the presidential contenders? Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and John McCain?
SMITH: Well, we have certainly made it clear - and this is an important point, because it is not a point shared by our Liberal and National Party opponents - that the relationship between Australia and the United States transcends who is ever in power, whether it is Republican or Democrats in the United States, or whether it is Liberal or Labor here. So whoever emerges as the next administration - whether it is Mr McCain, whether it is Hillary Clinton, whether it is Barack Obama - we will deal with whichever administration gets the support of the American people.
Our opponents, on the other hand, said that so far as Mr Obama was concerned and the Democrats were concerned, that these were the candidates of the terrorists. Well, we don't share that view.
Now the possibility is there in Mr Rudd's program for him to have contact with the campaigns or the candidates themselves. If that opportunity arises, certainly, he will take it. But for example, when I was in Washington earlier this year, it was very difficult to see people from the various campaigns, because they are obviously focused on trying to get themselves elected. If the opportunity arises, he will take it.
But we will make the point which we have always made, which is, we will work with whoever the American people gives the job of forming the next administration.
SPEERS: Minister, just a final one, on Zimbabwe. Voters there go to the polls over the weekend. No Australian election observers are being allowed in this time. Does that concern you? And how concerned are you about the abuse of the so-called democratic process there?
SMITH: Well, I am very concerned, and the Australian Government and I am sure the Australian people are very concerned about the very serious ongoing issues in Zimbabwe. I have got absolutely no confidence that we will see anything like a full and free and fair election. We haven't been asked on this occasion. We haven't been invited to send observers. But the sooner we see the end of the Mugabe regime, the sooner we see Mugabe and his regime walk out the door, then the better off not just Zimbabwe and its people will be, but the better off the Commonwealth and the international community will be.
So I have got absolutely no confidence that it will be anything other than a political fix to serve Mr Mugabe's and his regime's interest rather than the interests of the Zimbabwe people.
SPEERS: All right. Stephen Smith, thank you very much for your time.
SMITH: Thanks very much.
SPEERS: So Mike, Suzanne, some interesting comments there on a number of fronts from the foreign minister, and we will see what the Prime Minister has had to say from Washington shortly.
Ends
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