Interview with Australian media, Imperial Hotel, Tokyo

Subjects: Whaling, Security, FTA

INTERVIEWER: Minister, whaling – some parts of the Australian media this morning are treating what happened yesterday as a calculated insult to the Australian government. Given that the resumption of whaling started within hours of your arriving here, and there was a press release to that extent put out by the Fisheries Agency, how do you regard the coincidence with your arrival?

MINISTER: Well, regardless of the coincidence, I don’t in any way see it in any adverse way. The conversations I had with Mr Koumura both by telephone in Australia before the end of last year and last night reflect that this is an area where Australia and Japan agree to disagree, and the fact that we have a fundamentally good relationship enables us to put forward the strong view that we believe that the Japanese should cease whaling.

But it is very important to ensure that this doesn’t get in the way of the economic, security and strategic partnership that Australia and Japan have. And I am confident that is the case. I regard the resumption of whaling in the last couple of days as disappointing. We would prefer if it hadn’t occurred, but that’s as a consequence of the Australian government having a strong view that whaling should cease. I don’t really see anything more in it than that.

INTERVIEWER: It’s a case that they’ve literally started killing whales at approximately the same time you arrived in Tokyo. You don’t take that as some sort of an insult?

MINISTER: No. I don’t at all. These things occur. I regard this as a coincidence. I am disappointed by it because we have a strong belief that the Japanese should cease whaling. I made that point. What is our public policy objective here? Our public policy objective here is to persuade the Japanese government to cease whaling in the Southern Ocean. That remains our objective.

INTERVIEWER: Is it just the Southern Ocean? Is that the containment of Australia’s policy - solely on the Southern Ocean?

MINISTER: That’s obviously the area of the most interest to Australia. I think the view of the Australian government and the view of the Australian people is that whaling per se should cease. But Australia’s area of operation is in the Southern Oceans. But our objective is to get the Japanese to cease whaling. That’s our objective.

INTERVIEWER: If it were possible to have some form of compromise that got the Japanese whaling fleet out of the Antarctic, if the compromise, for instance, revolved around Australia at least agreeing to discuss an extension of coastal water whaling in Japan, which is something the previous government resolutely opposed every time it came up in the International Whaling Convention, what would the Rudd Government’s view on this kind of compromise be?

MINISTER: As I’ve indicated, we want the Japanese to cease whaling. We announced at the end of last year an array of public policy measures seeking to affect that objective; diplomatic measures. I made it clear last night, too, to Minister Koumura that we are proposing a couple of measures which we have previously announced. One is the appointment of a diplomatic envoy on whaling to take the dialogue and the diplomatic case up. Secondly, we are giving consideration to the possibility of an international legal case to pursue our view within international legal forums. I’ve also indicated to Mr Koumura that we will keep the Japanese government informed as we pursue and consider that possibility.

INTERVIEWER: It’s always said when whaling comes up that this is not an issue that should derail the diplomatic relationship. It is a very positive relationship. Yet, the fact that you are talking about it and it’s a very significant topic for you on these talks and it’s an issue that seems to generate such passion in Australia and now perhaps in Japan. Isn’t it inevitable that it is going to have an impact on the diplomatic relationship?

MINISTER: Well, I don’t believe so. I certainly hope not. Last night, of course, in our conversations, Mr Koumura and I agreed that one of the things that we wanted to make sure of was that that didn’t occur. We didn’t want an agreement to disagree over whaling to get in the way of the fundamental and enduring relationship and partnership between Australia and Japan. I made the point last night, as I do generally, that Australia has a very good relationship with Japan. This was originally based on investment and trade. But in more recent years it has gone from being a partnership in respective investment and trade talks to a partnership in security and strategic terms, so it’s a fundamentally important relationship to Australia.

And, as I said last night to Mr Koumura, from Australia’s perspective, Japan has been Australia’s longest supporter and friend in this region for considerable periods of time. With the nature of the relationship between Australia and Japan being both economically and strategically based, an area where we will agree to disagree will not largely get in the way of the fundamentals of that relationship.

INTERVIEWER: Will the Australian government now make available the evidence that was gathered yesterday by the Oceanic Viking to the Humane Society International so it can go to the Federal Court and justify an application for a contempt of court order?

MINISTER: The purpose of the Oceanic Viking’s mission was to gather evidence for the purposes of potential use in an international legal case by Australia. That’s the purpose of the mission, and that’s the purpose to which whatever information that has been gathered will be utilised. We’ve not proposed to hand it over for anyone else’s assistance. It’s for the assistance of the Australian government in determining whether we will pursue an international legal case on the basis that this is not scientific research, but this is the slaughter of whales.

INTERVIEWER: So the answer to my question is no.

MINISTER: Yes.

INTERVIEWER: In terms of Sea Shepherd, it is heading back to Melbourne. It says that Japan has asked for Australia to take action against Sea Shepherd. What’s the government’s position if Sea Shepherd arrives in an Australian port?

MINISTER: Well, the Australian Federal Police is evaluating whether anything untoward, unlawful or illegal occurred in the recent incident. From day one I said to all parties that restraint should be exercised. I made it clear at the time that I didn’t believe restraint had been exercised. I also made it clear that if anything illegal or unlawful has occurred, that not only do I not condone that, I absolutely condemn it.

I made it clear to the Japanese government that the actions of either Greenpeace, the Esperanza or Sea Shepherd are their actions and not actions of the Australian Government.

That is very clearly understood, and Mr Koumura was actually appreciative of the actions Australia had taken to ensure that the two gentlemen concerned were safely transported from the Japanese whaling vessel back onto the Steve Irwin. But it’s a matter for the Australian Federal Police, in the first instance, to evaluate. I am sure that they’re doing that in the usual way.

INTERVIEWER: Is it going to be a problem for you if the Sea Shepherd comes back to Melbourne, stocks up and goes out and continue to harass the Japanese fleet.

MINISTER: I’ve urged all concerned to exercise restraint. And on the morning of the successful transportation of the two gentlemen back to the Sea Shepherd, the captain of the Sea Shepherd indicated that he didn’t perceive the need for such an incident to occur again. And I hope that they take their own advice. We are dealing here with the high seas, long distances away from Australia, where the potential for an adverse incident is very high and the capacity for rescue is low. So whatever occurs either now or into the future, everyone should exercise restraint and everyone should make sure safety on the seas is uppermost in everyone’s mind and is the highest priority.

INTERVIEWER: Your government is taking legal advice to understand it has to follow what are the best avenues to pursue this matter in international tribunals. Do you expect to have some judgement or some decision on that matter before this whaling season finishes?

MINISTER: We’ll make a judgment in due course. We’ll make it over a time of our own choosing when we’ve fully considered all the available options to us. So we’ll consider the legal advice, we’ll consider whatever evidence is collected in the course of the Oceanic Viking’s mission, and we’ll do that in an orderly and sensible way.

INTERVIEWER: No doubt both you and Mr Koumura are interested in exploring where the two, what are in some senses two new governments’, attitudes on bilateral issues. Can you tell me first of all the Rudd Government’s attitude to the Defence and Security Cooperation Agreement, which Mr Rudd in opposition expressed some concern about being read as a treaty? Are you entirely happy now with these arrangements?

MINISTER: Well, I’ve indicated on behalf of the government that we support the arrangement. We propose to pursue it. There are a range of action plans, Memorandum of Understanding, which will flow as a consequence of the arrangement, and they’ll be pursued in the context of the annual regular 2+2 Ministerial meetings, the meetings of the Australian and Japanese foreign Affairs and Defence Ministers and we are expecting that in the course of the second half of this year we’ll have a 2+2. We are proposing to pursue that arrangement. It is one of the things which forms the basis of the security and strategic relationship between our two countries.

INTERVIEWER: It’s always been assumed that the final outworking of this agreement is that Australian and Japanese troops will exercise together and train together and quite possibly on Australian soil. Does the Australian/ Rudd Government have a different view on that than the previous government?

MINISTER: Well, I think that is getting very, very far advanced. Let’s take this step by step. There are a whole range of considerations that flow from that including constitutional issues so far as Japan is concerned, so I wouldn’t get too far ahead. We’re proposing to pursue the Action Plan in the context of our Ministerial 2+2, so I wouldn’t go too far down the track in that respect.

INTERVIEWER: The former Prime Minister, Shinzo Abe, talked about a quadrilateral-type forum involving Australia, the US, Japan and India. Do you see any merit in that idea or do you think there is any…

MINISTER: We have the trilateral relationship between Australia, the US and Japan. And one of the first things that I did when I became Foreign Minister, was to have a conversation with then Deputy Minister Yabunaka who was in Canberra at the time for an Officers level tripartite discussion. So we regard the trilateral conversation as important. We will prosecute that.

If you look at this century, if you like, we see the emergence or the re-emergence of China, we see the emergence of India. Australia has a good relationship with India, but I have made it clear we want to have an even better relationship with India and put that on an even better footing or setting. We have a very good relationship with China and that in part comes from our early recognition of China in the 1970s, but more recently because of the economic complementarity of our two economies, in particular minerals, petroleum, resources. We have an economic, security, strategic partnership with Japan and we have an alliance with the United States.

And all of these, as Mr Koumura said last night when we were having a general conversation in the same area, all of these things can lead to win-wins for all of the nations concerned. But we are not proposing to add to the trilateral by including India in that respect, but we do want to ensure that we have very good relations with India, with China, with the United States, and with Japan, and that view is shared by the Japanese government.

One of the things that we discussed last night was the recent constructive dialogue between China and Japan and I welcome very much the recent positive and constructive conversations that have been occurring at that level, including the Japanese Prime Minister’s visit, which was a very successful one.

INTERVIEWER: Do you worry about Australia getting caught between Japan and China?

MINISTER: No, I don’t. We have, as I described, a long-standing economic, security and strategic partnership with Japan. We have a very good and growing and emerging economic relationship and partnership with China. These things can be win-win for all concerned.

Mr Koumura expressed it in the same terms last night, where he spoke very positively about the successful trip that the Japanese Prime Minister had had to China and spoke in very positive terms about the constructive dialogue between China and Japan.

INTERVIEWER: Many in Japan feel that they are in competition with China and increasingly with India for Australian resources, Australian food. Have the Japanese sought any reassurance from the new government that they will get favoured-nation treatment or treatment that accords with the long-standing nature of the relationship?

MINISTER: Well, there’ve been no requests along those lines. Japan has been a long-standing important market for Australia. Japan continues to be, as it has for many years, Australia’s largest single export market. I expect that to continue for a long period of time. That applies generally, but it applies in particular to minerals and petroleum resources industry. I know that very well coming from Western Australia, as I do, whether it’s iron ore or whether it’s liquefied natural gas. I expect that Japan, being a destination for Australian exports, whether it’s minerals and petroleum resources, commodities or other things, it will continue for a long period of time.

INTERVIEWER: The Trade Minister, Mr Crean, was here last week. He indicated that an FTA between Japan and Australia was not as high a priority for him as it was to the Howard Government. He indicated that the Doha Round of talks was his top priority, then regional security was his second priority and the FTA came third.

MINISTER: I’m not sure that Simon would agree with that analysis. What Simon’s been indicating is that we do regard multilateral trade as being very important and whatever Free Trade Agreement or Enterprise and Economic Partnership Agreements, as the Japanese call them, are being pursued, should be pursued consistently. We regard a Free Trade Agreement with Japan as being very important.

Simon made that clear to the Japanese government in his meetings when he was here and I’ve made it clear to Mr Koumura last night. The negotiations continue. We are hopeful those negotiations can lead to a beneficial and productive outcome for both Japan and Australia. The public policy difference, if you like, is our view that over its period in office the previous government neglected the multilateral trade effort. We see the Doha Round as being very important. We see multilateral trade efforts as being very important, but the bilateral trade efforts are also important. And, provided proposed Free Trade Agreements fall consistently within the multilateral context, then we’ll put our shoulder to the wheel for them. The Japanese Free Trade Agreement is a classic example.

INTERVIEWER: Sorry to get back to whaling, but if the Sea Shepherd – if the crew – are not detained and they are allowed to go back out, surely you’d have to admit that that’s going to increase the strain between Australia and Japan. Some particularly heated statements have been made about Australia’s supposed turning a blind eye to the so-called criminal activities of the Sea Shepherd – surely that’s going to cause problems for you if Australia if the Federal Police don’t do anything if the Sea Shepherd docks tomorrow?

MINISTER: It’s in the first instance a matter for the Federal Police to evaluate. I’ve made it clear that in respect of past incidents and for anything that occurs in the future, everyone should exercise restraint. If anyone has engaged in unlawful or illegal activity, then not only do I not condone it, I condemn it. The Australian Federal Police, in the first instance, will evaluate on the basis of what’s occurred in the past.

But one of the things which was clear last night is that the Japanese government very clearly understands that what’s occurred are matters for individuals. They are not the responsibility of the Australian government. The Japanese government was very appreciative of the cooperative way in which Australia ensured that the two gentlemen concerned were returned ultimately to the Sea Shepherd. Whatever consequences flow from whatever people did on the high seas, the cards will fall where they lay. In the first instance, it is a matter for the Australian Federal Police to evaluate that and that evaluation is ongoing.

Ends

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