Radio National interview

Subjects: US alliance, whaling

FRAN KELLY: Let's go straight to Washington where our foreign minister Stephen Smith has been paying a visit.

Longstanding, enduring and indispensable is how the foreign minister characterised the US-Australia relationship yesterday, at the same time as he was formalising the timetable for Australia's withdrawal of combat troops from Iraq.

Stephen Smith's been in America for the best part of a week for the highest level meetings to date between the US administration and the new Rudd Labor Government.

He was also sitting in Congress for the final State of the Union address by President George W Bush. Yesterday, the minister met with Vice President Dick Cheney, Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice who apparently happily accepted his personal invite to visit his home town of Perth.

Overnight, Stephen Smith also held a series of meetings with national security officials, and I understand he's about to head up to Capitol Hill for a series of meetings with senior congressional leaders.

Minister, thanks very much for taking the time to talk with us.

STEPHEN SMITH: A pleasure, Fran. How are you?

FRAN KELLY: I'm very well. Minister, when you sat down and you told the US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that the Australian Government is sticking to its promise to pull out combat troops out of Iraq by mid 2008, did she attempt to argue otherwise?

STEPHEN SMITH: No Fran. Our election commitment is of long standing. It's well known. There have been previous discussions with the United States Government about how we propose to implement that, so it didn't come as a surprise. We've implemented it or we're implementing it in a way which we think causes minimal or least disruption to the United States and also to the United Kingdom. And at the end of the current rotation, the combat forces will be withdrawn. That'll occur about the middle of the year. That implements our election commitment and it came as no surprise to the United States administration.

FRAN KELLY: When you told the administration of the troop withdrawal, as you say it came as no surprise to them. But you also indicated that our government would consider other mechanisms for contributing to the job in Iraq. What did you mean?

STEPHEN SMITH: Well, we think that in Iraq, and I also made the same point about Afghanistan, that it's not just about a military or a security solution, it also has to be things which are on the non-military or non-security side: humanitarian assistance, as appropriate, and infrastructure to try and give the Iraqis the capacity to build and rebuild a nation state, so governance matters. They're the sorts of things which we are now giving consideration to, and I indicated that to the Secretary of State, just as I indicated it publicly yesterday.

FRAN KELLY: Well, while Australia is announcing it will pull out our combat troops, albeit it's a very small number - I think, 550 we're talking about, the US President was warning in his State of the Union address that a hasty troop withdrawal would leave the fragile political and security progress in Iraq in ruins. Do you agree with that assessment that US troops should not withdraw in any kind of hurry?

STEPHEN SMITH: Well, that's a matter for the United States and a matter for their administration.

FRAN KELLY: But you've received briefings from the Defense Secretary. What's your assessment, what's your view?

STEPHEN SMITH: Well, my view is that what we're doing as a nation state is appropriate for us to reflect our own national interest. We've made a significant contribution as a consequence of the decision of the previous government. And we think, and have thought for some time that the time had come to scale down and withdraw that combat or military assistance.

So we think it's appropriate from an Australian national interest point of view to make that decision. Other nation states, whether it's the British Government or the United States Government will come to their own conclusions in their own time.

FRAN KELLY: The President also told his fellow Americans yesterday that the troop surge instigated last year in Iraq has worked. The US has got al-Qaeda on the run he said in Iraq. Is that your government's assessment of the state of play there?

STEPHEN SMITH: Well, the advice I've received here in the course of the meetings that I've had is that the surge has been a positive influence, that it has and is showing signs of improvement so far as the security arrangements are concerned. And, I think, it's true to say that what the administration is saying privately, they're also saying publicly, which is they believe that it has been to date successful and has put Iraq in a much better position than was the case before the surge.

I think that private analysis is one which the administration is indicating publicly as well, and that, in part, was reflected in the President's speech last night.

FRAN KELLY: Just to go back though to the President's point that a hasty withdrawal would be diabolical, the Democrats, of course, are threatening to make a pretty speedy exit from Iraq should they be elected. That could happen within a year. Do you have a view on that and what was Robert Gates' advice and the other security officials you've spoken to advice about that?

STEPHEN SMITH: Well, it's not appropriate for me to engage in a conversation as to who might be the next administration of the United States. I've made what I think is a very sensible point, which is our relationship with the United States transcends who might be the Government in Australia and who might be the administration here. But it's not appropriate for me to be anticipating who the next administration might be, whether that's a Democrat administration or a Republican administration.

We will deal with the current administration, and so far as Iraq is concerned, I've made our view clear, which is understood by the Bush administration and the withdrawal of those troops will occur in an orderly fashion. And, at the same time, we're giving consideration to whether there are other things which we can appropriately do to render assistance to Iraq on the non-military side.

FRAN KELLY: It's 13 past six on Breakfast. Our guest this morning is foreign minister Stephen Smith who joins us from Washington.

Minister, undoubtedly, the strength of the alliance, I mean, we've seen that from history, tells us that it transcends whoever's in the administration in the White House. Nevertheless, given there seems to be strong support for a change at the top in Washington, the Democrats could very well soon be in power. Are you also having talks with the Democrat congressional leaders and, perhaps, in particular, members of the Clinton and the Obama camps?

STEPHEN SMITH: Well, I'm having conversations this afternoon in Washington with congressional representatives, both Democrat and Republican, who occupy relevant positions in particular House, Senate or Joint committees in Foreign Affairs and Defence.

I haven't sought out, and I don't think it would be appropriate for me to seek out, the respective campaigns. I will simply wait - and the Government will simply wait - until there is the election of a new president before going down the road of contact with the new Administration.

But in addition to the congressional representatives I've seen, I've also seen a range of people in respective think tanks. I've just, for example, come from a small lunch at the Brookings Institute, and you do get a range of well developed views in the United States about where United States policy either might or should go. That's all helpful grist for the mill in terms of us making our judgements for the future.

FRAN KELLY: Well Minister, you're off to Japan tomorrow. It's been a difficult and confrontational summer so far in the Southern Ocean, the Japanese whaling. What do you propose to tell the Japanese Government and what is Australian surveillance telling you? And, in particular, will Australia use the international courts as it's threatened to push this case?

STEPHEN SMITH: Well, I'll tell the Japanese Government, when I see my counterpart, foreign minister Koumura, in Tokyo later in the week what I told one of his deputies in Canberra in December and what I told him over the phone in December, which was the Australian Government has a very strong view – and it's shared, we believe, by the Australian people – that the Japanese should cease whaling in the southern oceans, and that we have embarked upon a range of diplomatic and other measures to try and persuade the Japanese that they should cease whaling.

One of those measures is the potential for an international legal action, which is why we have commissioned the surveillance activity, which is currently occurring, to gather evidence for potential use in a potential legal case. That might be before the International Court of Justice or before the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea. But we're giving consideration to that. But in the first instance, I'll make the point again strongly that we believe the Japanese should desist from whaling in the southern oceans.

FRAN KELLY: Well meanwhile, of course, Greenpeace and the Sea Shepherd have left the area, and the Australian surveillance ship is the only thing there at the moment. Will you maintain the presence of that boat and what is the evidence that it's looking for that might be useful in a court?

STEPHEN SMITH: Well, evidence that enables us to argue what we believe is true, which is that the whaling is not scientific research; it's simply the cull or the slaughtering of whales.

We've indicated that the surveillance will occur for a period of up to 20 days, but the effort is to essentially gather evidence to potentially show that it's not scientific research, it's simply the slaughter of whales.

FRAN KELLY: Just finally, Minister, the crisis in Kenya is worsening. Kofi Annan has arrived there now to try and mediate some kind of peace with that civil unrest. Is there talk of any role for the Commonwealth and Australia there in Kenya, or should there be?

STEPHEN SMITH: Let's make one final point on whales and I'll come to that.

FRAN KELLY: Sure.

STEPHEN SMITH: One of the reasons it enables us to take a strong view on whales and to agree to disagree strongly with the Japanese on this issue is the fundamental underlying strength of the relationship. So my visit to Japan and my conversations won't just be about whales – of course, that will come up – but that'll be in the context of, again, a longstanding, enduring, very good relationship between Australia and Japan. And I think one of the reasons we can so strongly disagree about whales is the fact that the fundamentals of the relationship are so strong.

On Kenya, I've indicated on a number of occasions that we're very concerned about what's occurring in Kenya. I've been urging the view that political leaders in Kenya should cooperate with the African political leaders' efforts through Kofi Annan to find a peaceful resolution to the difficulties. We're also very concerned about the adverse humanitarian consequences and a couple of weeks ago I announced an additional million dollar assistance to Kenya for humanitarian assistance. We are monitoring what's occurring in Kenya to see whether further assistance might be required.

I have also, just in the course of today, made the point that because this is in the aftermath of a disputed election, and because we don't want to be doing – as Australia, as a nation state – anything which might signify our support of one side or the other, I've indicated today that we will start now to limit ministerial contact in Kenya as part of one of our responses to seeking to encourage all the political leaders in Kenya to commence sensibly the mediation processes which Kofi Annan is trying to effect.

Ends

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