2GB Interview with Alan Jones

Subjects: Whaling, Afghanistan and Iraq

ALAN JONES: Let's go to Washington, a new Foreign Minister, West Australian Stephen Smith, who I must say has acquitted himself well in his first foray into the difficult world of international politics, in particular the United States of America.

As you most probably saw on television, he held a joint press conference with the US Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, he was a little nervous, but nonetheless impressive, he indicated that he'd had a productive and useful conversation with her, and that the meeting with her underlined the fundamental importance “of the alliance between Australia and the United States”. He went on, “This is an alliance which has served both nations well, for over half a century, forged in the context of World War II”. And he added, “I'm always proud to say forged by Labor Prime Minister, John Curtin, in a time of Australia's greatest peril”.

Well, from here he goes to Japan, for critical meetings with senior Japanese Government Ministers, politicians and foreign policy commentators, this will be a week after Simon Crean, the Trade Minister, has been to Tokyo, and no doubt the issue of so-called scientific whaling in the Southern Ocean, will be on the agenda.

Well, Stephen Smith, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, is on the line from Washington, Minister, good morning.

STEPHEN SMITH: Good morning, Alan.

ALAN JONES: Congratulations on your appointment, firstly, and congratulations on navigating your first meeting with the heavyweights in Washington. It's a bit daunting, I guess, is it?

STEPHEN SMITH: Thanks very much for that, Alan. It's not so much daunting, as you just put your shoulder to the wheel, and it's good fun, as well, so ...

ALAN JONES: You didn't miss inviting Condoleezza Rice to visit Perth, your home city in Western Australia, and what, she's accepted?

STEPHEN SMITH: Yes, she's accepted. No, I wanted to make the point that I come from Western Australia, Perth is not a place she'd visited before, so I made the offer, and she accepted, so we hope to see her in the course of this year.

But it was a very successful meeting, if I can say that. I came to the United States very early this year, to again underline the point that there's a fundamentally important relationship between Australia and the United States. The alliance continues to be the bedrock of our security and strategic arrangements. As you said in your introduction, it's served us well for over 50 years, and it's an indispensable part of our arrangements, so I made that point. There are of course always things that you might sort of disagree about. I also made the point that we will be withdrawing our combat Overwatch Battle Group from Iraq when it completes its current rotation.

ALAN JONES: Did Condoleezza Rice ask you to review that approach?

STEPHEN SMITH: No, no, because we had made that quite clear in the course of the election, that it was a formal election commitment, we had a longstanding and strong view about it, it was essentially taken as read. It was understood, and that's in part because we have been, since we were elected, at pains to make sure that we did it in the way which was in consultation with the United States, and also with the United Kingdom. So we've done our best to minimise any disruption, and to do that in a cooperative way with the United States.

ALAN JONES: Did anyone suggest to you that our withdrawal of combat troops might strengthen the resolve of al-Qaeda and the terrorist movement?

STEPHEN SMITH: No, that suggestion hasn't been made. We have had in addition to me advising the United States administration of our Iraq position, also had a range of talks about Afghanistan, where we also have troops, we're not proposing to disturb that arrangement.

I have made the point, both in Afghanistan and in Iraq, we think that in addition to a security aspect, there also needs to be civilian training, the building of capacity, infrastructure, the sorts of things which help people to build or rebuild a country, so ...

ALAN JONES: But you did say, in relation to Afghanistan, you did give a commitment to a significant combat or military role in Afghanistan. Why in Afghanistan, and not Iraq, when you said to Condoleezza Rice, that you want to support America's efforts in Iraq? Why wouldn't providing a limited number of combat troops in Iraq, be the best manifestation of that support?

STEPHEN SMITH: Well because we think we've historically, under the previous Government, Australia has made a military contribution to Iraq, we for a long time have believed that that was no longer appropriate, but we are prepared, and think it's important to do other things, which you and I have both referred to.

Afghanistan remains a considerable problem internationally, and for Australia, in terms of terrorism, in terms of al-Qaeda, in terms of that being a centre of terrorist activity, and we do believe very strongly, that it's appropriate for us to make a combat commitment there. As I say, we're not proposing to disturb that, but we are proposing, and we're currently giving it consideration, to add to that, with the sorts of things that are required to enable a country to take control of its own affairs, and to stop the terrorist activity from occurring, which ...

ALAN JONES: But you don't see any inconsistency with your determination to stop terrorist activity in Afghanistan, by strengthening our combat support, but withdrawing that combat support in Iraq, when that's precisely what the world is seeking to do too, to stop terrorist activity in Iraq?

STEPHEN SMITH: No, I don't see that. I don't see that inconsistency, and there are any number of people who I've seen make commentary in the United States, for example, who have a similar view, so I don't see any inconsistency there.

What I do see the need for in Afghanistan, and I've made this point too to Condoleezza Rice, and other officials who I've met, I think we need to have a stronger international commitment in Afghanistan, both in terms of a military or a security contribution, but also in the aid and the donor and the infrastructure and the building of governing capacity.

And there's an important conference, an important NATO conference coming up later this year, in April, where these issues will be on the table, and I think that's a very important meeting for the international community, as well as for NATO itself.

ALAN JONES: OK, now to Tokyo, you're off there tomorrow. How do you take the temperature out of this whaling issue, and at the same time stop what is really a fairly dishonest claim, that Japan is killing whales for research?

STEPHEN SMITH: Well, the Australian Government and the Australian people – I mean I know this from walking down the street, you'd know it from what your listeners say to you – …

ALAN JONES: Absolutely.

STEPHEN SMITH: ... have a very strong view in Australia that the Japanese should cease whaling in the Southern Oceans. It's not scientific research, it's the slaughter of whales, and Peter Garrett and I have announced a range of public policy ...

ALAN JONES: May I just interrupt you there, for clarification for my listeners. Is Japan ... when our Foreign Minister says that, might Japan say to you, well look, Article 8 of the International Convention for the Regulation of Whaling, provides a loophole that lets any member country kill as many whales as it wants, for scientific research anywhere in the world, and they keep saying to you, that's all we're doing, how do you handle that?

STEPHEN SMITH: Well, we don't believe it is scientific research, that's the first thing ...

ALAN JONES: That's right, they've been doing it, what, for 18 years, the science ought to be over by now, shouldn't it?

STEPHEN SMITH: Exactly, so we don't believe it's science, we believe it's just the slaughter of whales. We have a longstanding, enduring, very good relationship with Japan, we've had that for a number of years. It's a very good relationship. Prior to announcing our decision on whaling, we let the Japanese Government know what we were doing, and last year I spoke directly by telephone to their Foreign Minister, Foreign Minister Koumura, and one of the points I made to him was Australia and Japan do have a fundamentally good relationship, it's a trading relationship, a strategic relationship, a very important relationship, and it's the strength of that relationship which allows us to strongly agree to disagree over whaling.

ALAN JONES: But just on that, just on that, Stephen, I mean the Humane Society nonetheless are saying, that Japan have killed, since the year 2000, 1253 Minke whales, and nine Giant Fin whales, inside this Southern Ocean whale sanctuary. Now they want this matter to go to court, they want to gather evidence, you've got Viking down there with evidence of a breach, and mount a contempt of court action. Would the Rudd Government help them in that pursuit?

STEPHEN SMITH: Well, when the Humane Society decision came out, the Federal Court judge who made that decision, in the judgement itself, said, “It'll be difficult ...”. He effectively said, “It'll be difficult if not impossible to see this decision enforced”.

ALAN JONES: That's right.

STEPHEN SMITH: I think it was a good decision in this context: it was a decision by an Australian court, which underpinned or reinforced the public policy arguments that we had been making about the cessation of whaling.

In terms of legal action, I think the most effective potential in that area, is looking at the possibility of international legal action, either before the International Court of Justice, or before the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea, and that's what we're currently giving consideration to. No-one's been under any illusions that the Japanese were going to stop whaling overnight, this may well be a long term proposition, but it's well worth doing.

But you would of course have noticed, late last year there was a combination of what we were doing, and what the Americans were arguing to the Japanese, they agreed to drop off the cull of 50 Humpback whales, and Humpbacks of course are a very seriously endangered species. We welcomed that, but we have, as the Australian Government, and as shared by the Australian people, an objective to get the Japanese to cease whaling in the Southern Ocean.

ALAN JONES: Yes, I mean, just finally, after killing whales, as I said, for 18 years, none of its so-called scientific goals seem to have been achieved, and yet Japan has radically increased its kill quota. Are you going to go fairly ... I suppose the public are wanting to know, how strong are you prepared to go on these facts?

STEPHEN SMITH: Well, when I spoke to Foreign Minister Koumura by telephone, I made our views known to him very strongly, but in a polite way. You know, there's no point in not being polite.

ALAN JONES: Yep, yep, yep.

STEPHEN SMITH: ... in a polite but firm way, and I'll make all the same points again. But again, I make this point, that'll be done in the context that it is the strength of the relationship between Australia and Japan that allows us to so strongly disagree on this issue. If we didn't have a fundamentally good relationship, then having a fight, or having a dispute, or having a difficulty on this issue, would make it much more problematic, in terms of the relationship.

We've got a long term, enduring, positive relationship, we agree to disagree about whales, but the Australian Government will not desist, will not resile from our strong view that the Japanese should cease whaling in the Southern Oceans.

ALAN JONES: Good on you. Good to talk to you, and we'll talk again, but thank you for your time, and good luck with your endeavours tomorrow in Japan.

STEPHEN SMITH: Thanks very much, Alan. Good to talk to you.

ALAN JONES: You too. That's Stephen Smith, Australia's new Foreign Minister.

Ends

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